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Soul Sucker HELP???

This is a discussion on Soul Sucker HELP??? within the Ball Python Morphs forums, part of the Ball Python Forum category; So I lucked out and came across a Pastel H.G. Woma from a very reliable source. After much reading and ...

  1. #1
    TwistedEvolution's Avatar
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    Soul Sucker HELP???

    So I lucked out and came across a Pastel H.G. Woma from a very reliable source. After much reading and yes I have done all the searches on this forum and others as well I am still left confused on the Soul Sucker...

    To my knowledge all a Soul Sucker is combo wise is a H.G. Woma x Lesser???
    Now in all my reading and searching there is still doubt because of the un-knowledgeable people just typing what they heard from a bird.

    What I am looking for is anyone and everyone working with h.g. woma's to give there input. If you know the facts that is what I am looking for. If you are working on any projects headed in this direction please let me know what the truth is as far as the lies and stories go with this.


    What I believe as of now. Soul Sucker is a 1-4 h.g.woma x Lesser ANY lesser. The only reason I am stressing and need the truth from those in the know is for a purchase I may make soon. Hopefully picking up 3 lesser vanillas from a good friend around 500gr. Hopefully it is a vision others in this project have looked towards.

    Inferno is a pastel x h.g. woma x yellowbelly x granite N.E.R.D. I have seen one local in a collection without the granite gene and I think it is nicer looking and possibly throws away the need for granite at all. IMO
    Curious as to the validation of this because I also have a few yellowbellies lined up in his future...

    Now with all this said I have also read where the h.g. woma is thought to work much like a (het.platty) if you breed a platty daddy to a normal you end up with a 50%x50% split lesser's and het.platties. This is obviously not true since a Soul Sucker can replicate itself 1-4 to a normal or i this a lie as well? Is the Soul Sucker compatible with only certain Blu.E.L. genes. (i.e. Lesser)

    Thanks to all those working with these genes and any help you are willing to shoot my direction. Hope I wasn't rude I just dont need any input from birds dropping words...

    Peace, J

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  3. #2
    joe23 is offline Bush-League Sergeant Major BLBC Sergeant Major
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    i dont think many people will help u here cause not many work with them.


    for ME theres only one soulsucker- the original. i believe its a platinum hg woma.

    the others are lesser hg womas. but today they get sold as soulsucker. i dont think the lesser line is important. hg lesser doesnt exist for me without being a platinum in phenotype.


    on nerds site u see a combo called lesser hg woma- that are the souslcukers from today. and u see a combo lesser hg woma
    Last edited by joe23; 04-12-2012 at 10:30 PM.
    There is nothing so annoying as to have two people talking when you're busy interrupting.

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    Hey thanks JOE,
    Big time thanks, your the first person to break this down and it all make sense. First time I ever heard of the real and fake versions. To be honest though I like the fake from Crystal Palace. No dissrespect to them either by calling it a fake.

    However another question arises>>>> If the original Soul Sucker is in fact a (Patty, H.G. Woma) wouldn't that debunk all the theory of it being part of the BluE.L complex? If it can repeat itself?
    For instance a mystic potion (Mojave x Mystic) is allelic if bred out only mystics and mojaves are present in the offspring. If a (het.platty x Lesser) make the platty daddy and you get lessers and het.platties when bred out to a normal, where is there room for the H.G. Woma to rest on the same alleles? Doesn't this mean the platty daddy is only allelic? You cant make a (Super fire, Vanilla) They are allelic as well so you in turn only produce vanilla creams. Now I have heard that the "fake soul sucker" will replicate itself 1-4 to a normal. Doesn't this debunk the fact that it is allelic or even part of the blue complex? It clearly represents itself much more like a double co-dom mutation. (i.e. bumblebee, pewter and the like.

    Thanks again Joe. Your the man for breaking it down for me. Hopefully you can help with these last few questions.
    I think I am deff. gonna take a swing at pastel vanilla Soul Suckers later next year. I know they will be of the "fake Soul sucker lineage" but I think the outcome will still be something to see.

    peace, J
    "There's snakes around here, always has been, always will be. No, no silly I wasn't talking about the GOVERNMENT this time."
    Me......

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    Here is a question I have been pondering. Why does the picture of an abult soul sucker on World of Ball Pythons have what looks to be the same picture of this "fake" or lesser hg woma one from Crystal Palace - execpt with the word NERD imbedded into the picture?

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    joe23 is offline Bush-League Sergeant Major BLBC Sergeant Major
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    this is all just my theory. if u talk to other persons they might see it completely different.


    i dont think the hg woma belongs to the BEL complex.

    my theory is that only the first wildcaught hg woma carried a gene which acts similar to the one of the platinum. i call it het daddy from now so u understand what i mean. i dont neccessarly think its the same gene, but i think it might work similar.


    so the first hg woma was het daddy. bred to a lesser u get a part lesser hg womas and a small part of platty hg womas- everything that doesnt contain lesser has a 50% chance to carry the het daddy gene.

    when u breed such a 2.nd generation hg woma poss het daddy to a normal the babies have a 25% chance of carring the hidden gene. from each generation the chance is lower. so that i doubt today- 10 years later hg womas carry the gene. the chance is really really small to create a real soulsucker from a 2011 or 2010 etc hg woma.


    since this was the only real soulsucker (as far as i know, cause all following animals marketed as soulsucker didnt look like the real one), i doubt kevin hit the odds again.


    so yeah- basically i dont think the hg woma belongs in the BEL complex, nore do i believe theyre allelic.


    when u breed a platinum to an enchi is everything that isnt a lesser is a het daddy. breed such an enchi het daddy to a lesser or butter and ull have a chance to create the enchi platinum.

    the same way it worked with the real hg woma.

    maybe noah bred the hg woma to a platinum and sold it afterwards to kevin. he proved a lot of morphs before he sold em. he did it with the lesser and with the champagne for sure, so i dont think this is to far streched- although this is just a simple idea. maybe it was found this way in the wild.

    people breed snakes and new stuff pops out all the time.


    again- this is all just my THEORY- i dont have any prove for this, nore do i claim this is hundert percent correct. its just based on what ive seen so far- not out of actuall breeding results i made.

    other very knowledgeable persons which are far better with genetics then i, have different ideas.


    it would be cool if someone will prove my theory though. ud just have to take a "these days soulsucker" and breed it to a het daddy or platinum and with some luck hit the odds- i think the animal coming from this would resamble the real soulsucker.
    Last edited by joe23; 04-13-2012 at 04:27 PM.
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    joe23 is offline Bush-League Sergeant Major BLBC Sergeant Major
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    Quote Originally Posted by fountaincityreptiles View Post
    Here is a question I have been pondering. Why does the picture of an abult soul sucker on World of Ball Pythons have what looks to be the same picture of this "fake" or lesser hg woma one from Crystal Palace - execpt with the word NERD imbedded into the picture?
    2 things- first because these get called soulsuckers these days, cause he probably couldnt reproduce the real one.

    and second: crystal palace is the european distributor for NERD. so i guess NERD send them the snake and they put it up for sale on their page with their watermark.


    however- cpr made their own in 2010- this pictrue is older though.
    There is nothing so annoying as to have two people talking when you're busy interrupting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedEvolution View Post
    Hey thanks JOE,
    Big time thanks, your the first person to break this down and it all make sense. First time I ever heard of the real and fake versions. To be honest though I like the fake from Crystal Palace. No dissrespect to them either by calling it a fake.

    However another question arises>>>> If the original Soul Sucker is in fact a (Patty, H.G. Woma) wouldn't that debunk all the theory of it being part of the BluE.L complex? If it can repeat itself?
    For instance a mystic potion (Mojave x Mystic) is allelic if bred out only mystics and mojaves are present in the offspring. If a (het.platty x Lesser) make the platty daddy and you get lessers and het.platties when bred out to a normal, where is there room for the H.G. Woma to rest on the same alleles? Doesn't this mean the platty daddy is only allelic? You cant make a (Super fire, Vanilla) They are allelic as well so you in turn only produce vanilla creams. Now I have heard that the "fake soul sucker" will replicate itself 1-4 to a normal. Doesn't this debunk the fact that it is allelic or even part of the blue complex? It clearly represents itself much more like a double co-dom mutation. (i.e. bumblebee, pewter and the like.

    Thanks again Joe. Your the man for breaking it down for me. Hopefully you can help with these last few questions.
    I think I am deff. gonna take a swing at pastel vanilla Soul Suckers later next year. I know they will be of the "fake Soul sucker lineage" but I think the outcome will still be something to see.

    peace, J
    since when has hg woma ever been part of the BlueEL complex? i have never heard anyone say that

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    Well now THAT really is what I was wondering. If there is a "line" of hg lessers that make soul suckers, then there would be more than one picture out there of other animals that have grown up to look like that first one.

    Something else that has been causing me to wonder is something Kevin says on this video. He identifies one of the snakes that seems to me to look the same as lesser x hg woma and says this: "This is our classic soul sucker. It only takes one soul to make that."

    I wonder what he means by "one soul." it is at 7:05 in the video

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDs7x...4cDIH-DBqTI%3D[/ame]

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    fountaincityreptiles's Avatar
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    ok it looks like that didn't work. it is in the NERD 2011 part 3 video[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDs7x...4cDIH-DBqTI%3D"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDs7x...4cDIH-DBqTI%3D[/ame]

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    TwistedEvolution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAM_Reptiles View Post
    since when has hg woma ever been part of the BlueEL complex? i have never heard anyone say that
    I remember reading a while back an old thread stating at the time it was assumed to be allelic with the blueEL complex. Not sure on what forum but if I can find such thread I will gladly post it. Anyway all I was curious is to the validity of this. Has it been proven. For the most part apparently not because the "fake" soul sucker can readily repeat itself to a normal 1-4. That's all.
    "There's snakes around here, always has been, always will be. No, no silly I wasn't talking about the GOVERNMENT this time."
    Me......

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