The Future: Curse of the white snake.
Im thinking long term here (10 plus years at least), that all the morphs that have a homo white snake may be avoided/unwanted. First let me say I have a really nice mojo and its one of my favorites.
That being said, Lessers, Mojos, Russo Hets etc are all good now and people are glad to have them. But long term when 5+ combos become the norm (they will) breeding these guys together and getting a white snake creates bit of a problem. For instance, if you breed a male Lesser X Pastel X Pinstripe X Spider X Enchi X Ghost by a female that is a Pastel X Spider X Pinstripe X Het Ghost do you really want to have that female also have lesser or mojo in her ?
I have mixed feeling. I would say yes because there is no guarantee that the lesser trait will get passed down from both parents, or either for that matter, so it increases your odds of getting a bigger combo outcome in the offspring. I would also say I don’t want both parents to have one of the lesser/mojo or related genes because you could potentially get a white snake, but you have no idea what other genes are in there until you breed it, and even then you may not be sure since some may have not been passed on when it breeds the 1st time. I think it may come to people changing their collections to have limiting themselves to keeping the lesser/mojo types to a certain sex, so that they can continue to produce them but avoid the white snakes at the same time.
I know this it far out from where we are today, but theres no debating the future is in ever increasing combo animals. I can remember when a white snake was the “holy grail” of B.P.s, now people hope new morphs don’t have a super form that’s a white snake, so clearly things do change, and fairly quickly.
What do you guys think? Am I crazy or do you think this could really turn out to be the case.?

you make an interesting point.
however, i'm thinking that multi-mutant-gene critters are gonna throw lots of random, for lack of a better word, "paradox" lucies.
the little evidence we have now does tend to point to that, and i'd venture it's likely to continue, and with possibly more elaborate outcomes, with rarer and rarer opportunities to re-create.(once we start hitting things we believe are 1 in 64, and 1 in 128 combos, it's going to be very hard to prove random, or duplicatable)...
good news is we can all find out together, 'cause it's gonna be fun to see.
ck

I think you have a good point, but we haven't seen many lucy combos yet, and they may even look different than a regular lucies.

I think you have a good point, but we haven't seen many lucy combos yet, and they may even look different than a regular lucies.

I thought about that too, but havent seen any lucy combos that show any pattern. Do you know of any (photos) ?

Good point but not everybody might be interested in 6 or 7 gene animals. Also just because a white snake is one of the possibilities from a cross like you propose doesn't mean that it will show up. % will be lower when playing with many genes in one snake and many in its sexual pair so the outcome will probably show few lucies and most should be non-white in theory.
And even in the future I imagine a lucy will still be nice to look at if the breeder is "unlucky" (:lol:) to hatch one, even if only costs $200!

I too remember when they were the holy grail. I see a trend where people get used to combos that have only been produced a few years ago as if they had been around for ever. Then looking for the next big thing. It's only natural I guess but it does make me think. It's one of the joys of the internet, we get to see lots of morphs we might not have the chance to own for a while, and by the time we can purchase them we need something else, we've seen that morph for too long now :lol: Does anyone else get the same impression sometimes?

Whether the white snake stays at $2k or drops in price like the other morphs have, I can definitely say that I'll buy one eventually.

There are folks out there with their sights set on 5, 6, or 7 gene animals, but let's not forget that there are still hobbyists out there (like myself) who would buy a leucy simply because they like the way they look.

I remember when the leucy was advertised on Bob Clark's site for $20k. It actually wasn't that long ago...

I'm pretty sure their was an albino lucy produced and it had faint markings on its sides and might have even had red eyes. That is the only lucy cross I've seen.

Interesting topic.......and a good point was made later in the thread about beginner hobbyists.
I still look at lucy's today and drool. And you also gotta remember that all lucy's are not created equal.

But in the end, white snakes will always be popular.........IMO

My opinion is, white snakes are utterly boring looking. Whether boa or python, white snakes put me to sleep.

Very excellent point, it may happen, it may not, but like CK said, we'll all get to find out together, which should be quite interesting.

As someone that doesn't care much for white snakes I would say it really wont make that big of a difference. If you are talking about several traits the odds really do have to line up just right to get them -- and if you did get them I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find a white snake lover that might want to dink out what they are made of. :dunno: I'm sure the person that lists a Lucy possible pastel/spider/pinstripe/hypo - will make a decent profit regardless. If anything it will be interesting to see how people present the possible co-dom approach. Personally I think its a possibility that once we get into mixing a lot of these genes they are going to start throwing white snakes anyway.

Good point but not everybody might be interested in 6 or 7 gene animals. Also just because a white snake is one of the possibilities from a cross like you propose doesn't mean that it will show up. % will be lower when playing with many genes in one snake and many in its sexual pair so the outcome will probably show few lucies and most should be non-white in theory.
And even in the future I imagine a lucy will still be nice to look at if the breeder is "unlucky" (:lol:) to hatch one, even if only costs $200!

I too remember when they were the holy grail. I see a trend where people get used to combos that have only been produced a few years ago as if they had been around for ever. Then looking for the next big thing. It's only natural I guess but it does make me think. It's one of the joys of the internet, we get to see lots of morphs we might not have the chance to own for a while, and by the time we can purchase them we need something else, we've seen that morph for too long now :lol: Does anyone else get the same impression sometimes?

I totally agree. That can be the problem with the internet, I have heard a few combos called "common" and there were no more than 15 to 20 in all of existence!!!!!!!!

Interesting topic.......and a good point was made later in the thread about beginner hobbyists.
I still look at lucy's today and drool. And you also gotta remember that all lucy's are not created equal.

But in the end, white snakes will always be popular.........IMO

True, at Daytona I came with 2k specifically for a pure white snake, not ivorys or super mojos but a pure white super lesser/butter or a white diamond. I spoke with vendor friends that said most were bought up on friday ( not from the Bells lol ) So saturday morning I came straight through the doors and went on a dash to the few table my friends said might have some left. First tables I went had already sold the ones they had and when I finally found the one table in the whole show there was a guy infront of me who was already buying one of their three. I bought a female, and by the end of the show the remaining male was sold.
There will always be a few who dont like white snakes just like there will be those of us ( like myself )that dont like albinos. But I think that with each tear of price as a pure white python will have emense selling power. I didnt even buy my girl for a project, I just HAD to have one. And by how hard one was to locate I know I am far from alone.

very interesting topic. I agree with the attitude "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and look forward to seeing some of those 5,6 and 7 morph combos!

very interesting topic. I agree with the attitude "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

gotta agree there kare, at least for me it is.
the more beautiful something is, the greater the chance i'd like to be holdin' it.
ck

As someone that doesn't care much for white snakes I would say it really wont make that big of a difference. If you are talking about several traits the odds really do have to line up just right to get them -- and if you did get them I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find a white snake lover that might want to dink out what they are made of. :dunno: I'm sure the person that lists a Lucy possible pastel/spider/pinstripe/hypo - will make a decent profit regardless. If anything it will be interesting to see how people present the possible co-dom approach. Personally I think its a possibility that once we get into mixing a lot of these genes they are going to start throwing white snakes anyway.

Actually I like the thought of Lucy possible */*/*/*.
It would be a great snake for newer breeders to get the chance to pop out some cool unexpected animals...
I myself would not mind having a couple LUCY LOTO BALLS.

I have mixed feeling. I would say yes because there is no guarantee that the lesser trait will get passed down from both parents, or either for that matter, so it increases your odds of getting a bigger combo outcome in the offspring. I would also say I don’t want both parents to have one of the lesser/mojo or related genes because you could potentially get a white snake, but you have no idea what other genes are in there until you breed it, and even then you may not be sure since some may have not been passed on when it breeds the 1st time.

At some point, I am pretty sure people won't mix the BEL gene together. There is no point in not getting that big combo you are looking for.

The combo without the lesser gene will be as wanted as the one with the lesser gene. Because the one without will be a powerhouse to not produce BEL but other insane combo as the one you were trying to get.

Not sure if I am clear here ?

I also believe we will start to see people starting to produce BEL with more gene in them. A Mojave x Lesser BEL Pinstripe Ghost would rock won't it ? Breed it to a ghost, and you could get jigsaw ghost and kingpin ghost. And creating one wouldn't be that hard, if you breed a mojave ghost with a lesser ghost, all the offspring would be ghost and the BEL would be ghost. The problem is to get the single dominant gene in there. These proven adult breeders will be worth bunch of money :).

There will always be a use for BELs, even if its just to pass on the het phenotype.
I would just about give up my left nut for a Super Fire Banana pied.
Wonder what that would look like:rockon:

I used to think "Ugh...another white snake".

Now that I've seen a lot (if not all) of them in person, I've started to realize that they're all pretty cool for one reason or another. Plus we're just now starting to see the genetic potential (and surprises) they hold...take the fire ivory for example, or the lesser pied - I doubt anyone saw either of those coming.

Lumping ivories, blue eye leucies, black eyed leucies and all their combos into the same category as "white snakes" is like taking bumblebees, queenbees, kingpins, super blasts, etc. and calling them all "yellow snakes".

Yeah, the first group are mostly white and the second group are mostly yellow, but dammit I still want them all. lol

Yeah, the first group are mostly white and the second group are mostly yellow, but dammit I still want them all. lol

:yessir:

me too....

Lumping ivories, blue eye leucies, black eyed leucies and all their combos into the same category as "white snakes" is like taking bumblebees, queenbees, kingpins, super blasts, etc. and calling them all "yellow snakes".

Yeah, the first group are mostly white and the second group are mostly yellow, but dammit I still want them all. lol

Too true man :D theres so much variability in the "white snakes" and I know I wouldn't object to having one of each type in my collection! And hell, if I can get a blue eyed lucy (hot as hell on it's own) that's even a possible carrier of other co-dom or recessive type genes well that's a double bonus. I've then got a hot ass animal on it's own which has the potential to pass on all sorts of cool genes!

I used to think "Ugh...another white snake".

Now that I've seen a lot (if not all) of them in person, I've started to realize that they're all pretty cool for one reason or another. Plus we're just now starting to see the genetic potential (and surprises) they hold...take the fire ivory for example, or the lesser pied - I doubt anyone saw either of those coming.

Lumping ivories, blue eye leucies, black eyed leucies and all their combos into the same category as "white snakes" is like taking bumblebees, queenbees, kingpins, super blasts, etc. and calling them all "yellow snakes".

Yeah, the first group are mostly white and the second group are mostly yellow, but dammit I still want them all. lol

You nailed it Anthony. Great post!! :yessir:

There will always be a use for BELs, even if its just to pass on the het phenotype.
I would just about give up my left nut for a Super Fire Banana pied.
Wonder what that would look like:rockon:

it would look like you were missing one nut...
like the one ball man of legend.
ck

I used to think "Ugh...another white snake".

Now that I've seen a lot (if not all) of them in person, I've started to realize that they're all pretty cool for one reason or another. Plus we're just now starting to see the genetic potential (and surprises) they hold...take the fire ivory for example, or the lesser pied - I doubt anyone saw either of those coming.

Lumping ivories, blue eye leucies, black eyed leucies and all their combos into the same category as "white snakes" is like taking bumblebees, queenbees, kingpins, super blasts, etc. and calling them all "yellow snakes".

Yeah, the first group are mostly white and the second group are mostly yellow, but dammit I still want them all. lol

Yeah, that's a winner.... good post! :cheers:

it would look like you were missing one nut...
like the one ball man of legend.
ck

One of my nephews had one of his balls cut off when he was a kid and now has 9 children of his own. I think he had something to prove :lmao: On the other hand, I long for the day I can look at my breeding stock and choose which BEL to breed to what female! :wamma:

Makes an interesting point, I still love the lucies. I think that they will always have a place as every one has to start somwhere, and all of the morphs in the bel complex look awesome in their heterozygous form

Interesting point and one that Ive been thinking about lately. I love lucies, but I dont think I want to deal with never knowing whats really behind the white. Still gonna try for them, but if you put a 6 gene animal together and hit the odds, but the BEL complex erases the whole pattern, how do you market that? At that point a 200 dollar snake becomes a 3000 dollar snake that you dont even know about. Keeping all the white ones back to try them out the next year to see what's under the hood isnt realistic, well not for me anyway. It'll be interesting for sure, and it would be super cool to see the paradoxes that may emerge though.

The future of BP combinations is damn near infinite, and thats the beauty behind it. Maybe down the line, some gene combo will actually over ride the BEL complex (I dont know how, I just breed the things) and youll have some sort of Lesser/Butter/Mojave/Recessive/Recessive/Co-Dom/Dom/Co-dom/Recessive combination, now with pattern! Yeah!

got to say i still love my super mojave

The future of BP combinations is damn near infinite, and thats the beauty behind it. Maybe down the line, some gene combo will actually over ride the BEL complex (I dont know how, I just breed the things) and youll have some sort of Lesser/Butter/Mojave/Recessive/Recessive/Co-Dom/Dom/Co-dom/Recessive combination, now with pattern! Yeah!

I totally agree. The future is almost infinite based on what we already have to work with, but that doesn't include all of the things that will continue to pop up and get proven in the years to come. I don't know if we'll ever discover and "prove" every genetic mutation, but it will be a lot of fun to try. :cheers:

I long for the day I can look at my breeding stock and choose which BEL to breed to what female! :wamma:

and you know... there's a lot of substance in what you say here. i finally have some white critters of my own to look at... it may seem like splitting hairs to some people, but they all have some distinct nuance to them, even though they're all from the same clutch !
ck

I know I am one of the noobs who still wants to make his first "whitesnake", but I can also see down the road that I would not like to have a multi-gene snake that is masked by BEL, it would drive me nuts!

I thought about that too, but havent seen any lucy combos that show any pattern. Do you know of any (photos) ?

i havent read the thread completely so if someone wrote this before i apologize.

the polar ball (albino russo lucy) has pattern.

in mojos u can see combos ether. and i think that ralph davis had a super lesser pastel babie where he said immidiantly that it is a super lesser pastel (it was much whiter than his sibling lucys)- he called it pure lucy.

I realise your all talking mostly Blue Eye Leucies but Mike Wilbanks has bred Black Eye Leucie (super Fire) to a Fire and got the Striated Ball.

This is what he says about it.

"The Striated has a complete stripe, it has a dark shattered pattern on the sides, a completely white belly, a pale pink tongue and jet black eyes. The Striated looks very similar to the Super Stripe that is produced with the yellowbelly, but with the breeding that was done here, it is not possible for this to work the same"

Cant post a link to it cos of my postcount:mad:

I realise your all talking mostly Blue Eye Leucies but Mike Wilbanks has bred Black Eye Leucie (super Fire) to a Fire and got the Striated Ball.

This is what he says about it.

"The Striated has a complete stripe, it has a dark shattered pattern on the sides, a completely white belly, a pale pink tongue and jet black eyes. The Striated looks very similar to the Super Stripe that is produced with the yellowbelly, but with the breeding that was done here, it is not possible for this to work the same"

Cant post a link to it cos of my postcount:mad:

http://www.constrictors.com/Collection/BallPythons/StriatedBallPython.html
ck

Googled it.... That is a pretty interesting looking snake.

I'm pretty sure their was an albino lucy produced and it had faint markings on its sides and might have even had red eyes. That is the only lucy cross I've seen.

The 'cheery bomb' super mojo albino

The 'cheery bomb' super mojo albino

nope. mojo albinos do exist but its not what he meant. they dont show these pink blotches. hes refering to the polar ball. its an albino white diamond (russo).

Just to spice this thread up a bit. Don't forget that the Crystal and Mystic are part of the BEL complex and when used in the right combination you get some amazing things :yes:

I don't quite understand the crystal as being in the BEL complex. I'm not saying it's not , I just don't see it that way. Cross mojo-butter-lesser & some others and you get basically a white patternless snake. Cross a special into those and you get a yellow/cream color patterned snake. Cross two specials and you get a basic white snake with obvious pattern. They all basically work the same way but the outcome involving specials/crystals is different. Just my take on it. Either way i'm increasing my collection of specials/crystals for some hopefully awsome crosses in a few years.

I don't quite understand the crystal as being in the BEL complex. I'm not saying it's not , I just don't see it that way. Cross mojo-butter-lesser & some others and you get basically a white patternless snake. Cross a special into those and you get a yellow/cream color patterned snake. Cross two specials and you get a basic white snake with obvious pattern. They all basically work the same way but the outcome involving specials/crystals is different. Just my take on it. Either way i'm increasing my collection of specials/crystals for some hopefully awsome crosses in a few years.

I agree with you Bruce.
Specials don't make a white snake.

Referring back to the original topic of the thread: what about the future? Well, we have a model that has been playing out far longer than the ball python morph blitz. I wouldn't dare compare any of this to cornsnakes, you guys would likely have me tarred and feathered if I did that, but the morph issue is very similar. The cornsnake folks have been doing this for a long time. I realize the lesser/super complex issue for the most part is absent, but the model will work out the same.
You have to look at it in tiers. There are basically 4 tiers to this breeding game. Ive been in it for 25 years and I'm a people watcher by nature, so these things occur to me.
Tier 1. You have Bob Clark, Peter Kahl and the like who spend hundreds of thousands if not millions on the one-off wild caught or captive freak mutations and start most of these projects.
Tier 2. You have a couple hundred breeders who buy what the tier 1 breeders release at the beginning. They are always after the next big thing. Right now it seems to be how many recessive genes can we pack into one animal.
Tier 3. You have people like me,of which there are many hundreds if not thousands who wait until the Tier 1 and 2 people have produced enough of those animals that they have begun to come down in price before they buy them and still get to experiment with relatively new stuff.
Tier 4. You have people not interested in breeding, only want a snake(s) for pets
The reason this is relavent to this topic is it's the tier 3 and 4 people who ultimately decides what lasts. They have no idea and definitely no say in what is coming next. That is up to the tier 1 and 2 folks. If the tier 3 and 4 people like it, the tier 2 people will continue to produce it. If not, it will get dropped on the way to the next big thing, or at least the price will come down to the point where only the tier 3 people will be interested in breeding it.
Back to the corns. 25 years ago, there were only a couple of morphs. Those morphs are still around today, but not produced by the cutting edge breeders(Tier 1) They are cranking out 5 and 6 gene corns. The plain old anerys and amels are still around though, because tier 3 and 4 people like them. What happens in corns though that I think will eventually happen with this ball situation is the people who don't want or cant afford the 6 gene animals will continue to work with the 2 and 3 genes and try to "perfect" them. Clean them up if you will, in search for the "perfect example". you already see that some in balls. The dichotomy is a little more pronounced in balls because of the huge price tag. Where in corns it is theoretically possible for a tier 3 or 4 person to fork out the money to become a tier 2 breeder, that is nearly impossible in the ball market. Too much cash.
Sorry for the long post, but just thought I'd shed a little bright light on the future. As long as our wonderful government(Don't get me wrong, I'm proud to be an American) doesnt screw it up for us, the sky is the limit. If you want to chase those 327 recessive gene animals, go for it. If not, us tier 3 and 4 people will keep you in business producing the albinos and the spiders because they are still cool.

I don't quite understand the crystal as being in the BEL complex. I'm not saying it's not , I just don't see it that way. Cross mojo-butter-lesser & some others and you get basically a white patternless snake. Cross a special into those and you get a yellow/cream color patterned snake. Cross two specials and you get a basic white snake with obvious pattern. They all basically work the same way but the outcome involving specials/crystals is different. Just my take on it. Either way i'm increasing my collection of specials/crystals for some hopefully awsome crosses in a few years.

it sits on the same locus aka same complex, has nothing to do with looks.

Though I do see the point your trying to make

Referring back to the original topic of the thread: what about the future? Well, we have a model that has been playing out far longer than the ball python morph blitz. I wouldn't dare compare any of this to cornsnakes, you guys would likely have me tarred and feathered if I did that, but the morph issue is very similar. The cornsnake folks have been doing this for a long time. I realize the lesser/super complex issue for the most part is absent, but the model will work out the same.
You have to look at it in tiers. There are basically 4 tiers to this breeding game. Ive been in it for 25 years and I'm a people watcher by nature, so these things occur to me.
Tier 1. You have Bob Clark, Peter Kahl and the like who spend hundreds of thousands if not millions on the one-off wild caught or captive freak mutations and start most of these projects.
Tier 2. You have a couple hundred breeders who buy what the tier 1 breeders release at the beginning. They are always after the next big thing. Right now it seems to be how many recessive genes can we pack into one animal.
Tier 3. You have people like me,of which there are many hundreds if not thousands who wait until the Tier 1 and 2 people have produced enough of those animals that they have begun to come down in price before they buy them and still get to experiment with relatively new stuff.
Tier 4. You have people not interested in breeding, only want a snake(s) for pets
The reason this is relavent to this topic is it's the tier 3 and 4 people who ultimately decides what lasts. They have no idea and definitely no say in what is coming next. That is up to the tier 1 and 2 folks. If the tier 3 and 4 people like it, the tier 2 people will continue to produce it. If not, it will get dropped on the way to the next big thing, or at least the price will come down to the point where only the tier 3 people will be interested in breeding it.
Back to the corns. 25 years ago, there were only a couple of morphs. Those morphs are still around today, but not produced by the cutting edge breeders(Tier 1) They are cranking out 5 and 6 gene corns. The plain old anerys and amels are still around though, because tier 3 and 4 people like them. What happens in corns though that I think will eventually happen with this ball situation is the people who don't want or cant afford the 6 gene animals will continue to work with the 2 and 3 genes and try to "perfect" them. Clean them up if you will, in search for the "perfect example". you already see that some in balls. The dichotomy is a little more pronounced in balls because of the huge price tag. Where in corns it is theoretically possible for a tier 3 or 4 person to fork out the money to become a tier 2 breeder, that is nearly impossible in the ball market. Too much cash.
Sorry for the long post, but just thought I'd shed a little bright light on the future. As long as our wonderful government(Don't get me wrong, I'm proud to be an American) doesnt screw it up for us, the sky is the limit. If you want to chase those 327 recessive gene animals, go for it. If not, us tier 3 and 4 people will keep you in business producing the albinos and the spiders because they are still cool.

Having been into this for as many years as I have I totally see your point. When I was working for Terry Odegaard (The Pet Dragon-Pet Shop) back in 1976 I saw my first hatchling amel corn. He had just paid $750.00 for it to be a 1st/2nd tier breeder. I paid $750.00 for my first pair of amel cal kings trying to be a 2nd tier breeder in about 1978/1979. I think you have hit it on the head.:yes:

Originally posted by panhead: Having been into this for as many years as I have I totally see your point. When I was working for Terry Odegaard (The Pet Dragon-Pet Shop) back in 1976 I saw my first hatchling amel corn. He had just paid $750.00 for it to be a 1st/2nd tier breeder. I paid $750.00 for my first pair of amel cal kings trying to be a 2nd tier breeder in about 1978/1979. I think you have hit it on the head.
I'm off topic now, but I thought that might hit home for someone whos been around awhile. Not many of us still in it that were in it back then. You've been around even longer than I. I started in about 1984-5. $750 for cali kings. I had forgotten. I do remember when I first got a taste of the morph revolution though. Columbus Ohio the first time the blonde subocs were shown. Cant remember who started that for sure, Mark Bell maybe? They were $1800-2000. Then not long after that, before I could even catch my breath, he had the silvers out at that price and the blondes were $600-700. It's been that way ever since, and I suspect it will be that way from now on. The snakes, the prices, and the people change, but the business stays the same. Nice reminiscing with you

Referring back to the original topic of the thread: what about the future? Well, we have a model that has been playing out far longer than the ball python morph blitz. I wouldn't dare compare any of this to cornsnakes, you guys would likely have me tarred and feathered if I did that, but the morph issue is very similar. The cornsnake folks have been doing this for a long time. I realize the lesser/super complex issue for the most part is absent, but the model will work out the same.
You have to look at it in tiers. There are basically 4 tiers to this breeding game. Ive been in it for 25 years and I'm a people watcher by nature, so these things occur to me.
Tier 1. You have Bob Clark, Peter Kahl and the like who spend hundreds of thousands if not millions on the one-off wild caught or captive freak mutations and start most of these projects.
Tier 2. You have a couple hundred breeders who buy what the tier 1 breeders release at the beginning. They are always after the next big thing. Right now it seems to be how many recessive genes can we pack into one animal.
Tier 3. You have people like me,of which there are many hundreds if not thousands who wait until the Tier 1 and 2 people have produced enough of those animals that they have begun to come down in price before they buy them and still get to experiment with relatively new stuff.
Tier 4. You have people not interested in breeding, only want a snake(s) for pets
The reason this is relavent to this topic is it's the tier 3 and 4 people who ultimately decides what lasts. They have no idea and definitely no say in what is coming next. That is up to the tier 1 and 2 folks. If the tier 3 and 4 people like it, the tier 2 people will continue to produce it. If not, it will get dropped on the way to the next big thing, or at least the price will come down to the point where only the tier 3 people will be interested in breeding it.
Back to the corns. 25 years ago, there were only a couple of morphs. Those morphs are still around today, but not produced by the cutting edge breeders(Tier 1) They are cranking out 5 and 6 gene corns. The plain old anerys and amels are still around though, because tier 3 and 4 people like them. What happens in corns though that I think will eventually happen with this ball situation is the people who don't want or cant afford the 6 gene animals will continue to work with the 2 and 3 genes and try to "perfect" them. Clean them up if you will, in search for the "perfect example". you already see that some in balls. The dichotomy is a little more pronounced in balls because of the huge price tag. Where in corns it is theoretically possible for a tier 3 or 4 person to fork out the money to become a tier 2 breeder, that is nearly impossible in the ball market. Too much cash.
Sorry for the long post, but just thought I'd shed a little bright light on the future. As long as our wonderful government(Don't get me wrong, I'm proud to be an American) doesnt screw it up for us, the sky is the limit. If you want to chase those 327 recessive gene animals, go for it. If not, us tier 3 and 4 people will keep you in business producing the albinos and the spiders because they are still cool.

That should be easy for anyone to follow and understand.... I think it sums it it up perfectly.

I agree with you Bruce.
Specials don't make a white snake.

When you breed them to a lesser they do.

http://www.reptileradio.net/reptileradio/showthread.php?t=29862

John
Thanks for the link. It just seemed that up until now the special produced yellow/cream snakes with pattern when bred to the other BEL's. Maybe it works differently with the mojo than with the lesser? Doing some future breedings with mojo, lesser, etc females and using the same special/crystal male may answer some questions.

I agree with you Bruce.
Specials don't make a white snake.

So a Super mojo is a "white snake"?:dunno: I see pattern in my super mojos.... Not trying to ruffle feathers, just trying to open the box :yessir:

When I used the term "white snake", I meant it as a general statement referring to the fact that a super mojo (at least with mine) and it seems most other BEL's don't have a real obvious pattern or different base color other than an off white to them as opposed to the crystals.:cheers:

John
Thanks for the link. It just seemed that up until now the special produced yellow/cream snakes with pattern when bred to the other BEL's. Maybe it works differently with the mojo than with the lesser? Doing some future breedings with mojo, lesser, etc females and using the same special/crystal male may answer some questions.

I was pretty disappointed when I saw that the special lesser was white. Way back when I was first getting into balls I decided to go with lessers and skip the mojaves. Now that I am planning to get a Special male in the next few weeks I have to try to find a few good sized mojaves for him.

Hi, I have heard of several wild caught lines of 'fire', I think including the 'sulfur' line, that produce some very interesting Black eyed Lucies... they have a lot of yellow blotching.