I have some nice plans for these guys in the future. :yessir:

Now for the decision, should I breed these two or not? You decide! Thought it would be cool to get the Bush league involved in my breeding season.

Here's the pair:

0.1 Will Bird Diamond/Coastal Intergrade
http://moreliapythons.com/photopost/data/500/Angel_3.JPG

1.0 Brother to the girl above.
http://moreliapythons.com/photopost/data/500/Apollo.JPG

Better question would be.....do you NEED to breed them?

Something I've been thinking about lately.....do I really need to breed all these animals?

Does there really need to be more animals that are hard to sell NOW......in the future?

So the better question would be to ask yourself if they do produce.....

Is there a market for these particular animals?
Will they move or will I be stuck with them?
Can I feed them all if they don't move?
Can I give them away to friends if they don't move?
Does it matter if they don't move?
Do I want to see the result of this breeding? Will the results be exciting....or just more Carpet Pythons?

Finding myself asking these questions more so than not these days.

As long as you enjoy them....do what you want.

D.

Better question would be.....do you NEED to breed them?

Something I've been thinking about lately.....do I really need to breed all these animals?

Does there really need to be more animals that are hard to sell NOW......in the future?

So the better question would be to ask yourself if they do produce.....

Is there a market for these particular animals?
Will they move or will I be stuck with them?
Can I feed them all if they don't move?
Can I give them away to friends if they don't move?
Does it matter if they don't move?
Do I want to see the result of this breeding? Will the results be exciting....or just more Carpet Pythons?

Finding myself asking these questions more so than not these days.

As long as you enjoy them....do what you want.

D.

I havent seen better advice in a long time bro! :rockon:

Better question would be.....do you NEED to breed them?

Something I've been thinking about lately.....do I really need to breed all these animals?

Does there really need to be more animals that are hard to sell NOW......in the future?

So the better question would be to ask yourself if they do produce.....

Is there a market for these particular animals?
Will they move or will I be stuck with them?
Can I feed them all if they don't move?
Can I give them away to friends if they don't move?
Does it matter if they don't move?
Do I want to see the result of this breeding? Will the results be exciting....or just more Carpet Pythons?

Finding myself asking these questions more so than not these days.

As long as you enjoy them....do what you want.

D.

Excellent post.:yessir:

OK...I'll jump on the "Derek's right" bandwagon too.:cheers:

We just had a similar conversation recently where I told him how it's nice to make enough money with my animals to support my hobby. He asked something I hadn't been asked before: "What if you don't?" Of course, with me it's a no brainer...I'd keep them and feed them and have a good time doing it.

I am personally looking at this years projects and trying to decide which ones really get me going...I think this year I'm only going to pair up the animals that make me drool!

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Better question would be.....do you NEED to breed them?

Something I've been thinking about lately.....do I really need to breed all these animals?

Does there really need to be more animals that are hard to sell NOW......in the future?

So the better question would be to ask yourself if they do produce.....

Is there a market for these particular animals?
Will they move or will I be stuck with them?
Can I feed them all if they don't move?
Can I give them away to friends if they don't move?
Does it matter if they don't move?
Do I want to see the result of this breeding? Will the results be exciting....or just more Carpet Pythons?

Finding myself asking these questions more so than not these days.

As long as you enjoy them....do what you want.

D.

That right there is BUSH LEAGUE baby!!!! I couldn't agree more. :cheers:

He asked something I hadn't been asked before: "What if you don't?" Of course, with me it's a no brainer...I'd keep them and feed them and have a good time doing it.


Haha...that one stuck with ya....didn't it?

You know...it's funny but, I've got 5 or 6 pair of BHPs that I'll never put together again. I've seen what the pairings yield....and I don't need to produce anymore. NOW, that doesn't mean that I won't breed stuff.....just to keep pumpin' animals into an already overgrown hobby.....doesn't make sense to me.

I have unproven pairs that I will try and if I don't get any this year.....oh well.
And if I do....well most of you know....getting BHP from me is like pulling teeth. Haha.

D.

I also have been asking my self the same questions as Dave. I am thinking of buying a pair of REALLY nice adult jungles from great lines but the question is; is it worth while producing more babies that maybe you will end up keeping? If I do buy them and never get to breed them fine, it is my passion to keep this animals. So it is my responsibility to make sure that if I do breed them they will all have homes that is what I am worried about. So my question to you guys now is: how easy/hard is to sell your babies?

I hear people saying that they "can't sell animals" and "how bad this year is", etc.....
The thing is.....what are you selling?
Is it a desired market for the animal you are producing?

You bought up buying some "great lines" of adult jungles. Well, with nice Jungles....you can't lose.

I know a dude that keeps all of his until they are 2 or 3 years old. He brings them to the shows.....displays some of the best yellow and Black animals....you've even seen...and sells out of them at 750 to 1000 bucks each!!!! Even this year with the "poor economy".

I've sold out of 6 Carpet clutches this year but, others are saying they have a hard time giving them away.

So, what's the difference?

D.

I hear people saying that they "can't sell animals" and "how bad this year is", etc.....
The thing is.....what are you selling?
Is it a desired market for the animal you are producing?

You bought up buying some "great lines" of adult jungles. Well, with nice Jungles....you can't lose.

I know a dude that keeps all of his until they are 2 or 3 years old. He brings them to the shows.....displays some of the best yellow and Black animals....you've even seen...and sells out of them at 750 to 1000 bucks each!!!! Even this year with the "poor economy".

I've sold out of 6 Carpet clutches this year but, others are saying they have a hard time giving them away.

So, what's the difference?

D.

Exactly, a lot of it is the people themselves. They buy the animals, breed them and put one ad up on one site and bitch they don't sell. You have to be proactive!!! Get your name out there, be active on forums, sell yourself first, show people what kind of business you will run, be someone people can trust. If people don't know who you are or how you take care of your animals, they are less likely to buy from you. Be a selective breeder, quality sells!!! Quality from a quality trustworthy breeder sells even better. :cheers:

Haha...that one stuck with ya....didn't it?

You know...it's funny but, I've got 5 or 6 pair of BHPs that I'll never put together again. I've seen what the pairings yield....and I don't need to produce anymore. NOW, that doesn't mean that I won't breed stuff.....just to keep pumpin' animals into an already overgrown hobby.....doesn't make sense to me.

D.

Yup...sure did.

I, also, am only pairing up animals that I think are going to knock people's socks off! I still have about 50 carpets from this year, so I really don't needto produce any more. I'm just stepping back and seeing how everything starts turning out, then I'll try and sell them at a year old.

I also have been asking my self the same questions as Dave. I am thinking of buying a pair of REALLY nice adult jungles from great lines but the question is; is it worth while producing more babies that maybe you will end up keeping? If I do buy them and never get to breed them fine, it is my passion to keep this animals. So it is my responsibility to make sure that if I do breed them they will all have homes that is what I am worried about. So my question to you guys now is: how easy/hard is to sell your babies?

Babies aren't flying off the shelves, if you know what I mean. My advice to you would be to pick up a nice group of yearlings and babies. See how they all color up, and when you can pick out a stunning pair, they will already be established. Also, because you hand picked them for quality, the babies will be easier to sell after you breed them.

Excellent advice in this thread, and ONE reason I'm going to keep my collection smaller with the Morelia. For one, I'm choosing THE nicest animals I can find, instead of just picking up whats available. In the future I want to produce animals that make jaws hit the floor.

Building my collection this way might cost me more, but I have animals that blow my socks off everytime I look at them and when it comes to producing offspring down the road (if at all) I know that they'll likely move with no problems at whatever price tag I want to put on them. Even if I don't produce, I have those trophy animals that I love taking out and cleaning/feeding.

With nice stock the potential is there to make some money, but it still shouldn't be top priority especially when you're planning pairings. I like Derek's quote up above, and it can really answer a person's motives for being in this hobby!

Building my collection this way might cost me more, but I have animals that blow my socks off everytime I look at them and when it comes to producing offspring down the road (if at all) I know that they'll likely move with no problems at whatever price tag I want to put on them. Even if I don't produce, I have those trophy animals that I love taking out and cleaning/feeding.



Great thread! I think this mindset is what sets us apart on this forum from a lot of other people out there. Most animals are pretty easy to come by these days with all the breeders that are out there, but finding a true trophy example of any animal or morph isn't so easy. Building a collection around that idea means that when you do produce offspring they will be in demand and if you don't breed them, well then you still have the pleasure of keeping some incredible stuff!
The guy that really got me thinking about building a collection this way is John Battaglia. He spent years to build up a collection of carpets that was less than a dozen animals, but every single one of those are perfect examples of their kind and everyone knows his animals by name because of this.
Breeding animals shouldn't be done just because it can be, breed your animals to make offspring that are nicer than their parents......selective breeding! If more people looked at it that way markets would be much more stable and we would have more jaw dropping animals to look at!

Amen, my brothas!

Quality always sells. People are always going to want the best looking animals they can find.

I was lucky, in the fact that.... this was my biggest year in sales. That was only because I'm known as a "hoarder" of animals...... and, this year was the first year that, people didn't have to use vice grips to get animals out of my hands.
I had them readily available and people came through.

I remember one year....there was a BIG demand for my NG's.
I had built a lot of pictures up on forums and whatnot....and I had about 25 people on a waiting list for em'.
Well, I put 3 females in with males thinking....O.K. At least I won't be stuck with all of these.


NO-ONE came through......I had 30 something+ animals.
No big deal as I simply didn't breed them for many years....built the demand for them again and I have a waiting list again.

You just have to know how to market your animals.
I have pairs of stuff that I don't even bother putting together because.... I know they'll only go into the pet trade and simply.........I don't want to add to that.

D.

Wow, what happened here LOL? I was just trying to be interactive and show off some animals I like.

I have the time, money, resources, space etc, but instead of me making the decision I just thought "Why don't I let the good folks on the BLBC decide".

Here's a little story about how I came to know Derek and the BLBC. I picked up a Supernova Jag from a friend of mine, and wanted an NG to go with her. I knew Derek had been consistently working with these because he's posted them on all sorts of forums, so I contacted him. No ads, no nothing. To see shots of these animals, he sent me a link to this forum.

For anyone watching....reputation is EVERYTHING!!! If I didn't know Derek to be a decent guy on public forums, I wouldn't have his animals right now, and I don't care how good they look.

Wow, what happened here LOL? I was just trying to be interactive and show off some animals I like.

I have the time, money, resources, space etc, but instead of me making the decision I just thought "Why don't I let the good folks on the BLBC decide". Guess I shouldn't have.

Bro, no one is jumping on you here. In fact, I would say just the opposite. We as herpers need to start making wise decisions on breeding that will affect our hobby in the future. We ALL need to take a step back and decide what should be bred and what shouldnt. I think this has been a very good discussion and you do have some beautiful animals!

Guess I shouldn't have.

I thought it turned into a very informative discussion........:dunno:

Wow, what happened here LOL? I was just trying to be interactive and show off some animals I like.

I have the time, money, resources, space etc, but instead of me making the decision I just thought "Why don't I let the good folks on the BLBC decide". Guess I shouldn't have.

Yeah, I guess this thread got :hijacked: ...sorry!

Bottom line, Dave if you're happy with the genetics and you think you can produce some cool animals, then by all means, go for it! I wish you the best of luck. I know Will's got some very nice stock, and I hope the babies shine for you.

Bottom line, Dave if you're happy with the genetics and you think you can produce some cool animals, then by all means, go for it! I wish you the best of luck. I know Will's got some very nice stock, and I hope the babies shine for you.

Thanks Mike. These two should produce some tri-stripes, so I thought some tri-striped diamond/coastals would look pretty cool. Not too mention, she's never been bred so she really shouldn't lay a large clutch.

I thought it turned into a very informative discussion........:dunno:

Ron and Bill,

I apologize, when I type, I sometimes come off as defensive, even thought I don't mean it that way.

All's well. :yessir:

Yeah, I wasn't meaning to come off in anyway either....Just something I've personally been thinking about lately.
With all the Hubba about shutting down our hobby/business, etc.....the last thing I want to do..... is add to a surplus of animals.... that already don't have a home.
One thing I always go by is.....
Can I afford to keep, house, feed, for the lifetime of the animal, to the best of your ability, etc.... all the animals I hatch each year..... if none move?

If your answer is yes...then breed all the animals want.
If the answer is no.....better think about what you put together and if it's just an urge to satisfy a desire.... or pocket....or both. And, are you cool with that urge?

I know a guy that produces hundreds of retics each year......HUNDREDS!!!!!!!
WHY?????? So he wholesales them out for 15 bucks each and puts some bucks in his pocket....but, for what reason?

As I said Dave.... It was just something on my mind....and nothing to do with your actual post.
I enjoy seeing little heads pokin' out each year...and I will continue to do so....legal or not....... Just as I would suspect any snake lover to do.

Cheers,
D.

Great thread in the way of ethics. :yessir: