Lets see your Ackie enclosures!

I've been thinking about a group of these buggers for quite a while, and want to get ideas of what to keep them in...

Trough, Melamine cage?

Trough Trough Trough!

I wouldnt use melamine at all. Its very heavy and its a particle board product wrapped in a laminate. An ackie cage is going to be humid (if you do it right) with plenty of moist dirt. Melamine wouldnt be able to stand up to that. If one drop of water gets behind the laminate its gonna swell up like a balloon.

A better idea, if you wanted to build the cage entirely from wood, is FRP board over 3/4" plywood and silicone the corners. FRP (fiber reenforced plastic) is the stuff you often seen in restaurant bathrooms on the walls pr commercial kitchens. Its not water resistant, its water PROOF! Which is very good. However if you're planning on using a foot of dirt for substrate you better makle sure that bottom is secure or the weight of the dirt could split it on ya.

What I like to do is use a trough as the base. Cattle troughs are the best thing to happen to monitors since frozen rats. They are cheap, water proof and damn near indestructible. The purpose of the trough is to hold the dirt. They dont split, they dont rust, they are made to be kicked around by cattle so nothing a monitor does to it will have a chance. Then you make a top for it and you're golden. Your top can be as simple or elaborate as you care to make it. As long as it holds in some humidity, gives you a place for your lights and is secure.

For ackies you could go with a flat top made of plexi since they really dont need a super high enclosure. Or you could go up a little bit and build a box with a viewing window and a door. You dont really NEED to but on my most recent cages I gave it a go and I kinda like it. It gives you a chance to see them a little better.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/Varanus99/002-4.jpg

In this pic you can see the trough on the bottom. Its 6' L by almost 3' wide. Then on top you can see the beginnings of the plywood/FRP cover without the front. I laminate my playwood first. I just lay it out, trowl on my glue and set the FRP. Once I dry I cut my pieces together. That way you dont have to build something out of plywood and then go insane trying to get perfect cuts of FRP to match. Its already laminated on, one cut baby. Some folks with just use plywood and seal it. Thats fine but when I build a cage I want it forever. So I like to go the extra mile and use the FRP.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/Varanus99/005-2.jpg

Here's a pic of the inside. I cut the lip just a little bigger than the trough, seal it with silicone and screw it on with sheet metal screws pre-drilled. You dont need many screws. The weight of the cover holds it down pretty good.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/Varanus99/002-5.jpg

And here's the top finished. You can see the Retes Stack (All Hail) on the left. Its sitting on a platform I built with FRP over. You can see the shine from the basking lights above. Simple hinges and slide bolts hold the door in place. I built it out of one piece of wood to make ot strong and then just added plexi for viewing. Since that picture was taken Ive added some more cork bark tubes and branches for them to climb around on.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/Varanus99/007-2.jpg

Here are the lights. I use two for a larger basking area. Two simple porcelian fixtures ($1.79 Home Depot) and a metal box. I went a little wild and hardwired my lights together and ran them to a switch then attached a power cord with a plug. The switch is on the side. I have one more light on the right which I use for additional warmth on the colder month or Ill throw in a flour light just for viewing. But the basking area is what throws the heat. I kinda like the basking shelf since by elevating it I can use small wattage bulbs.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/Varanus99/006-1.jpg

Big 'ol chunk of wood for climbing up

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/Varanus99/IM000547.jpg

One of the tenants. I have about a foot of soil in there. I use the Pro Exotics mix modified just a tad. You can collect your own soil if you like but Im too old and lazy. Plus you risk bringing in unwanted pests. So I use a Home Depot mix. My mix is sifted organic topsoil/sand/vermiculite at about 40/40/20 ratio. Basically you just want to create a soil that will hold a burrow. As long as you do that you can use all sorts of mixes. You want to add enough water so its semi moist but not soaking wet. If you grab a handful in your fist and squeeze it should clump but no water should come out. Thats about right. Plus Ill do "test digs" with my hand and see if I can make a burrow that doesnt collapse. You will have to add some water periodically as you go along. How much will depend on how well your cage holds humidity. You just kinda go by feel. You dont want a sloppy mess but you dont want it bone dry either.

Note the dirty water bowl. Get used to that. LOL!

In hindsight I didnt really need all that height but I like it came out and it allows me to view them from the side not just the top which I dig. You can certainly do a flat top which is a little easier and the animals will do just fine. Same concept. Trough on the bottom and then a wooden top with FRP on the inside, lights attached and plexi door for access as well as viewing. I dont like straight up plexi tops connected with pop rivets since I find them weak. I like a wooden frame. Strong! Or maybe its because Im more comfortable working with wood than plexi and Ive never pop riveted anything in my life.

Thats an adult cage. For hatchlings I use fish tanks with a very simple plexiglass top. Fish tank get a lot of hate in the monitor community and Im not sure why. Its not the tank thats the problem its the screen top. They allow all your heat and humidity to escape which is a no no. If you make your own top they do just fine for temporary enclosures for small lizards. I mean after all, a cage is just a box. Whatever its made of its a box. If it does its job than its a good box!

Wanted to add something but ran out of time. Damn you, Larry! LOL!

Note that on my cage the top is solid, no screening. I also dont have any vents. The small spaces around the door seem to be enough. Plus me opening the door every day allows air exchange. I did buy some small 3" plastic vents and was thinking of installing them but so far there has been no need. My cage holds heat and humidity great, its not getting moldy or funky and the animals are thriving. If you feel you need some venting them just go for a small vent or two on the cool side near the bottom of the plywood. Or, if its a flat top, one small vent on the cool side. When people build monitor cages they often make the mistake of too much venting and they wind up drying out their lizards as all their humidity escapes. A baby ackie will dry out quicker than a fish in the noon day sun. Here's a test. Put a small piece of meat in your cage and leave it overnight. If its still juicy the next day you're good. If it turns into beef jerk you're too dry. And thats exactly what will happen to the monitor. He's beef jerky. Thats why I often get questions from folks who have a monitor that is spending 90% of its time in the water bowl. Thats not normal. Hes too dry and is trying to hydrate himself.

After the cage is ready and your tenants move in comes the fun part. Tweaks! Im not the kind of guy who says "Do what I say because Im an expert!". No sir. I say "Here are some tips that work for me BUT now WATCH your lizards and adjust the cage by what THEY tell you, not me. Im an idiot". Observe them. Do they bask constantly? Cage could be too cold. Are they not making burrows? They might not like your soil and you may have to adjust it. Ackies are gophers. They dig. Period. If yours arent digging there is something about your substrate they dont like. Are they always hanging on the cool end? Cage could be too hot. A temp gun is your best friend. Mine cost $25 from Pro Exotics (Shout out to Robyn! Dooooooooood) and its a fantastic tool. I have no thermometers in there. Not a one. I just temp gun the basking spot, the cool side, under the hides, my grilled cheese sandwich, whatever.

For your basking spot you wanna hit at least 130 degrees and I go higher. Mine is 145-150. This may sound high but its just one small spot which they can use or not use as they see fit. Thats why a Retes Stack (All Hail) I consider essential. By placing the stack under the basking lights you have no created a wonderful thermal gradient. On the highest spot you got 150 lets say. If they scoot over a little they may be 140 or a little less. If they go down one level perhaps 120. Lower down, 100. You get the idea. You'll see the lizards move up and down the stack as they adjust their body temperatures according to THEIR needs not what WE tell them they should be. And, they can thermoregulate under cover not out in the open. The stacks mimic the rock crevices, fallen trees, etc that they live in out in the wild. If you want a more naturalistic look and dont like the plywood stack you could get the same effect with a stack of cork bark flats or even stone. Just be careful if you use stone that its glued together or somehow tip proof or you could have a squashed lizard. Warm, tight hides that they have to squeeze into...well they just love it. And, of course, provide some hides on the cooler end as well.

Whew...thats all I got for now.

Thank you once again for all the great information. I love that cage. :letsparty:

Thanks!

I dont know why that first pic is so small. Grrrrrrrr....

Good thing Im better with lizards than I am with cameras and mucking around with pictures. Otherwise my guys would be pushing up daisies by now.

With all this great information I can just hear Jeff's mind taking off on how, when, and where he could fit that type of enclosure in the house to add to our collection. :lol:

Uh oh...

Me thinks I have started something...



(Pssst Jeff....I got eggs!!) :devil:

Uh oh...

Me thinks I have started something...



(Pssst Jeff....I got eggs!!) :devil:

Yeah yeah he knows.....:lol: Just don't squish them when you start 'sitting' on them so they hatch.:greenman:

Great info. I got a lot of this from hangin' out on the monitor forum in KS. I can understrand Frank LOL, and don't have the problems some do with him, but you do it so much more politely :).

Quig

Yeah yeah he knows.....:lol: Just don't squish them when you start 'sitting' on them so they hatch.:greenman:


Yes ma'am!

Great info. I got a lot of this from hangin' out on the monitor forum in KS. I can understrand Frank LOL, and don't have the problems some do with him, but you do it so much more politely :).

Quig

Thank you.

A LOT of my info comes from Frank. FR is a pioneer. Hes the captain, I'm just a crewman swabbin' the decks.

Its good that you have a thick skin and can see past FR's sometimes gruff mannerisms and absorb all the amazing information he provides. Some people cant.

But yeah when I talk monitors I try not to come off like Yoda.

"Mmhhh want to keep monitors you do? Have what it takes you think you possess? You're not afraid? You will be"

:)

I consider myself a funnel. I've been gathering the information and applying what Ive learned for a long time. Ive made tons of mistakes. So now I dipense said information in what I hope is a friendly and easy to understand fashion. With a goofball comment thrown in here and there for good measure. After all, this is supposed to be fun. If its not fun why even do it?

another quality thread brought to life by Big V.
thanx brotha, most informative.
ck

another quality thread brought to life by Big V.
thanx brotha, most informative.
ck

I second that - Good one...:yessir:

Damn good information, thanks V!

What I was thinking for a display cage was using marine grade plywood, and also sealing it with an epoxy... basically it'd be the stuff they make docks out of. Another thought was using a pond liner as an added safety measure for the 1-2 ft. of soil, although likely uneccessary, it'd give me the peace of mind. Essentially it'd be making my own trough, I could fancy up the outside to look more like a nice piece of furniture, but it essentially should hold up to the humidity/heat. And for viewing windows I'm going to steal an idea of a buddy of mine and use sliding windows... It'd be easier to explain with a picture, but all these ideas are in my head.

Another quick question... what ratio do you keep in that 6x3 trough? Say I made an enclosure 4'x3'x5'.... would you recommend 1.1, 1.2, 1.3?

I appreciate the information, I too have taken tons of info from KS monitor forums, and varanus.nl...however many of the monitor guys seem too busy to help out with questions...

That is awesome! Got my gears turning now.

very well explained and def. got my interest peaked at this as well. I have always wanted an ackie and needed a guide as to what all would go into the building of an enclosure. Thanks again V:yourock:

Damn good information, thanks V!

What I was thinking for a display cage was using marine grade plywood, and also sealing it with an epoxy... basically it'd be the stuff they make docks out of. Another thought was using a pond liner as an added safety measure for the 1-2 ft. of soil, although likely uneccessary, it'd give me the peace of mind. Essentially it'd be making my own trough, I could fancy up the outside to look more like a nice piece of furniture, but it essentially should hold up to the humidity/heat. And for viewing windows I'm going to steal an idea of a buddy of mine and use sliding windows... It'd be easier to explain with a picture, but all these ideas are in my head.

Another quick question... what ratio do you keep in that 6x3 trough? Say I made an enclosure 4'x3'x5'.... would you recommend 1.1, 1.2, 1.3?

I appreciate the information, I too have taken tons of info from KS monitor forums, and varanus.nl...however many of the monitor guys seem too busy to help out with questions...

Im familar with marine plywood. If Im not mistaken its very expensive and I *think* it may have an additive which could be harmful to the animals. I am not sure but you should research that before you start your project.

There really is no limit to what you can do when it comes to cages. I mean sure you could use a pond liner if you want. That would work. What I would suggest is to still use a trough as your base and just build your display cage around it. Essentially its the same thing, a lot less work and galvanized steel is forever. That doesnt mean that your ideas wont work. They very well may. Personally I like to start with a trough and go from there.

Even if you didnt use a pond liner sealed plywood will last a while even with the dirt. Im just thinking long term. What I have seen some people do who dont like how the trough looks is build completely around it from top to bottom. So you dont see the trough at all its hidden within the cage. Then you can build up and do whatever you like. You could also use a smaller trough it doesnt have to be gigantic. For example, if you wanted a 6' long display cage you could use a 3' trough. The animals will still have a good sized area to dig and will also have the 6' of floor space around the top of the trough. Just a thought.

Ive seen people use vinyl sliding windows. Its a fine idea and works well. They are waterproof, they come with their own locks and they sure do look nice.

As far as ratio I really like 1.2. When you say 4x3x5 Im assumming thats LxWxH. That would be fine for 1.2. It would also be ok for 1.3 I just like 1.2 better since its less crowded and easier to keep track of everybody. Ackies are pretty good when it comes to socializing but the more animals you keep together the greater the chances of a problem. Sometimes even the females will dominate and pick on the other females. Again, Im not saying 1.3 CANT work I just prefer 1.2 and that would be my suggestion.

I second that - Good one...:yessir:

Thank you :yessir:

very well explained and def. got my interest peaked at this as well. I have always wanted an ackie and needed a guide as to what all would go into the building of an enclosure. Thanks again V:yourock:

:yessir:

Cool.

Keep in mind it doesnt have to be elaborate. There are just a few key elements you want to consider:

1. The cage should hold heat and humidity with very little venting
2. It should be as large as reasonably possible monitors appreciate space
3. It should be able to hold enough substrate to allow the animals to dig
4. Elevated basking platforms or Retes stacks(All Hail) are just freakin' lovely
5. High basking temps
6. Numerous, tight hides on hot and cold side

If those conditions are met there are any number of things you can do.

another quality thread brought to life by Big V.
thanx brotha, most informative.
ck

Awww c'mon Ck...you're gonna make me cry...

Oh dammit there I go...

:(

Im familar with marine plywood. If Im not mistaken its very expensive and I *think* it may have an additive which could be harmful to the animals. I am not sure but you should research that before you start your project.

There really is no limit to what you can do when it comes to cages. I mean sure you could use a pond liner if you want. That would work. What I would suggest is to still use a trough as your base and just build your display cage around it. Essentially its the same thing, a lot less work and galvanized steel is forever. That doesnt mean that your ideas wont work. They very well may. Personally I like to start with a trough and go from there.

Even if you didnt use a pond liner sealed plywood will last a while even with the dirt. Im just thinking long term. What I have seen some people do who dont like how the trough looks is build completely around it from top to bottom. So you dont see the trough at all its hidden within the cage. Then you can build up and do whatever you like. You could also use a smaller trough it doesnt have to be gigantic. For example, if you wanted a 6' long display cage you could use a 3' trough. The animals will still have a good sized area to dig and will also have the 6' of floor space around the top of the trough. Just a thought.

Ive seen people use vinyl sliding windows. Its a fine idea and works well. They are waterproof, they come with their own locks and they sure do look nice.

As far as ratio I really like 1.2. When you say 4x3x5 Im assumming thats LxWxH. That would be fine for 1.2. It would also be ok for 1.3 I just like 1.2 better since its less crowded and easier to keep track of everybody. Ackies are pretty good when it comes to socializing but the more animals you keep together the greater the chances of a problem. Sometimes even the females will dominate and pick on the other females. Again, Im not saying 1.3 CANT work I just prefer 1.2 and that would be my suggestion.

I appreciate the input! I'll check into the marine ply before I jump into the project, just in the planning stages anyways. I just didn't like the idea of a galvenized trough, when everything else in the herp room is more "finished", but I like your suggestion of just building on top of it, and "skirting" the trough to hide it form view, it would save a lot of the build time...and I live in a farming community so they aren't hard to find.

1.2 is what I was thinking for something that size, and yes I meant 4ft long X 3ft wide X 5 ft tall. I figured by the time I had 2ft of dirt, plus about 6-8" inches for basking lights it'd leave about 12-18in.+ of useable space above ground for the monitors and stacks.

Thanks again bro!

Now I just have to decide on Yellows or Reds...or perhaps if I find a smoking deal on Storri, Tristis, or Glauteri..... hmmm... :devil:

Wow V killer there brother! I love those enclosures plenty of room with a nice basking area.. Now thats lizard livin..:)

Great thread packed full'o useful info!! Got me intrested in the ackies..

Alan

Great thread packed full'o useful info!! Got me intrested in the ackies..

Alan

Cool! The more the merrier.

Now I just have to decide on Yellows or Reds...or perhaps if I find a smoking deal on Storri, Tristis, or Glauteri..... hmmm... :devil:

Storri are smaaaaall. Cool but small. Doesnt always do well in groups. Can be intolerant of each other. Big cages help.

Tristis are nice looking but kinda shy. They hide a lot. And they love to climb. Fast little buggers.

Glauteri I cant really call shy just a little nervous. They startle easily but if you're cool so are they. They are the flattest and most graceful monitors Ive ever seen.


I keep tristis, which I call Blackheads and Kimberlys. Never had storri but have read about them. Blackheads/Kimmies are very similar in their care. Taller cages, more things to climb on, tight hides, vertical hides appreciated. They dont gorge themselves like ackies do. They dont really appreciate a lot of handling. But they are fun to watch when they are on the prowl.


I would only rate the tristis/kims as slightly more difficult than ackies. Just a few tweaks here and there. And hands off! If you plan on interacting with the lizards a lot better off with an ackie. They dont care. Kimmies will tolerate it to some degree. Tristis hate it.

None of them bite at least mine dont. But if you grab a kimmie or tristis they will struggle to get away. You have to approach them gently and slowly. Mine take food from my hands but that took time. Ackies are born with big cajones and seem to fear nothing.

If you want a nice display Id vote for Kimmies if you can find them at a decent price. In a well planned cage they are nothing short of spectacular. They move like gazelles with long tails.