Has anyone ever ordered condro's from Bushmasters? They sell supposed locality animals can they be trusted that those are actual localities? How reliable are they? Thanks for any info.

Larry

Bushmaster is Kamuran - He essentially owns THE chondro farm in Indonesia. When you see Ben Siegel, or LLL Reptile, etc. selling locality baby chondros at low prices, there's about a 95% chance the chondro was produced at Bushmaster's facility in Indonesia.

The animals really are locality specific and come from surprisingly small areas of PNG. He gave a presentation at a symposium a few years ago on their facility, the legal aspects, how they acquire permits to collect in certain areas, etc. Very intricate operation, very organized, clean, etc.

If you buy these chondros from the retailers that he sells to, make sure it's someone with a good reputation - chances are they know what they're doing, and that's important with baby chondros. Or, you could buy direct from Kamuran and probably have the best chance of getting the healthiest import baby possible.

Personally, I'd spend double to get US CB animals if it were my first chondro. Forget the fact that you can get some really cool bloodlines....just the information you get from a breeder is worth it. Knowing what the animals eats, how it likes to eat, what kind of cage it's accustomed to, etc. will keep you confident that you're keeping the animal correctly, should it decide to not eat for a few weeks, etc.

Bushmaster is Kamuran - He essentially owns THE chondro farm in Indonesia. When you see Ben Siegel, or LLL Reptile, etc. selling locality baby chondros at low prices, there's about a 95% chance the chondro was produced at Bushmaster's facility in Indonesia.

The animals really are locality specific and come from surprisingly small areas of PNG. He gave a presentation at a symposium a few years ago on their facility, the legal aspects, how they acquire permits to collect in certain areas, etc. Very intricate operation, very organized, clean, etc.

If you buy these chondros from the retailers that he sells to, make sure it's someone with a good reputation - chances are they know what they're doing, and that's important with baby chondros. Or, you could buy direct from Kamuran and probably have the best chance of getting the healthiest import baby possible.

Personally, I'd spend double to get US CB animals if it were my first chondro. Forget the fact that you can get some really cool bloodlines....just the information you get from a breeder is worth it. Knowing what the animals eats, how it likes to eat, what kind of cage it's accustomed to, etc. will keep you confident that you're keeping the animal correctly, should it decide to not eat for a few weeks, etc.

Right om bro! :yessir: You nailed that one to the tee!
Take Anthony's advice, especially if you are not an expert at keeping chondros. It will save you some heartache in the end....

Anthony, thanks for the info. I'm always tempted to pick up a Boelens when he has them for sale but hesitate. Plus, I'd then need more...

Thanks that was great advice.

Thanks that was great advice.

It may take longer and you may even have to "save up" but it will be well worth it.

Great info AC:rockon:

Excellent info and advise Anthony. :yessir:

If you really want a locality chondro, then you will have ahrd time if you limit yourself to US c.b. animals. the sad truth is that very few people breed locality gtps. You can get healthy c.b animals certainly but the overwhelming majority are crosses. To me its really sad that after 25 years of captive breeding you can barely find a domesically produced locality animal.

For many years , certain breeders who produce mixed blood animals have made major efforts to discredit the entire concept of locality GTPs, for obvious reasons. Unfortunatley they have been quite successefull and as a result you see people parroting their propaganda and trying to cast doubt on all locality animals. They have been so successefull that know even bushmaster produces mixed blood animals at their indo facilty and actually prices them higher than their pure locality animals.

The net result of all this is the the US market is unbeleivably skewed toward mutt gtps.

I dont personally understand it as the vast majority of mutt gtps dont really look like anything anway and I have never seen a mixed gtp that was better looking than a good example of any of the locality populations. show me the "high yellow" line that is more yellow than a kofiau locality animal?

Furthermore, most of the mixed blood gtps being produced domestically will at some point be recognised as hybrids, as the species viridis is in the process of being split into two seperat taxons, a northern form and a southern form.

If you really want locality specific you will have to do you homework to find them if you want US c.b.

Nick

If you really want a locality chondro, then you will have ahrd time if you limit yourself to US c.b. animals. the sad truth is that very few people breed locality gtps. You can get healthy c.b animals certainly but the overwhelming majority are crosses. To me its really sad that after 25 years of captive breeding you can barely find a domesically produced locality animal.

For many years , certain breeders who produce mixed blood animals have made major efforts to discredit the entire concept of locality GTPs, for obvious reasons. Unfortunatley they have been quite successefull and as a result you see people parroting their propaganda and trying to cast doubt on all locality animals. They have been so successefull that know even bushmaster produces mixed blood animals at their indo facilty and actually prices them higher than their pure locality animals.

The net result of all this is the the US market is unbeleivably skewed toward mutt gtps.

I dont personally understand it as the vast majority of mutt gtps dont really look like anything anway and I have never seen a mixed gtp that was better looking than a good example of any of the locality populations. show me the "high yellow" line that is more yellow than a kofiau locality animal?

Furthermore, most of the mixed blood gtps being produced domestically will at some point be recognised as hybrids, as the species viridis is in the process of being split into two seperat taxons, a northern form and a southern form.

If you really want locality specific you will have to do you homework to find them if you want US c.b.

Nick


Great post Nick. Do you place any blame for the negative image towards locality US CBB GTP's on guys like Greg Maxwell?

Great post Nick. Do you place any blame for the negative image towards locality US CBB GTP's on guys like Greg Maxwell?

Good question......I'm interested in that answer too :).

I have heard good and bad about Bushmaster snakes. Mostly good tho

Great post Nick. Do you place any blame for the negative image towards locality US CBB GTP's on guys like Greg Maxwell?

Real late on this one and I can't speak for Nick, but in my personal opinion Greg and his followers definately deserve some of the blame....IMHO!

Breeding locality Chondros is not any less challenging than breeding lineage animals, yet many from the Maxwell train of thought snubbed their noses at the accomplishments of locality breeders when really the only difference between the two groups is the price on the offspring. I don't expect big bucks for my Biak outcrosses, as there are a lot of farmed chondros to compete with. However, I did have to go through losing an entire clutch one year, and loosing a few more eggs the next year as I get my incubation technique dialed in,....I also spent hours with a flash light, a hot bowl of water, and some freshly thawed pinks inorder to get the ones I hatched out going! A true test of patience, especially if you have a couple straglers.

I don't think there is as much of a negative image anymore regarding locality stuff. But, I think that the volume that Bushmaster puts into the market and the price level they are at makes it hard to compete as a locality breeder because I know in my case I just can't let mine go that cheap because I know what went into finally producing them and they are worth WAY more to me than the current market price.

Basically, the way I see it is Greg did a some damage to locality chondro breeding early on, which I believe killed it before it even had a chance to get sorted out, and then the market took care of the rest. For what it is worth, regarding the OP, both my Biak female that I've had for almost 8 yrs and my recent Lereh girl pick-up were both Bushmaster animals that I got from Ben Siegel and I couldn't be happier with them. I am not doing this as a business, so basically for me I will breed what I want and can afford and let the rest sort it self out.:rebel: