Varanus99
11-18-2008, 07:29 PM
Hey kids. Let's tawk, no big whoop.
Today I wanted to talk a little about feeding monitors. Feeding monitors you say? But they eat anything! True for the most part. But there is some poo poo floating around out there that might be confusing if you are new to varanids.
People feed their monitors all sorts of stuff. From dog food to chicken parts to roadkill. Yup, roadkill. And they eat it. So whats the problem?
I can tell you flat out I am a huge fan of whole prey items. Namely insects and rodents. And birds (quail/chicks) if you wanna throw them in as well. Two of the top guys in the monitor game are Frank Retes and Robyn from Pro Exotics. They both use and endorse whole prey items. Who am I to argue? Im Bush. Bush-League, baby.
I feed my gang roaches and rodents. Sometimes crickets for the hatchlings since roaches can be hard for the little guys to catch. Thats it. And they are thriving and breeding on this very simple diet.
I do use fresh ground turkey to get hatchlings started if they are slow to come around. When I first got my Kimberly rocks they were a little fussy when it came to food. I got them going on fresh ground turkey. Then I started adding chopped pinkies to the mix. And slowly weaned them off the turkey and onto chop pinks. Then they started eating crickets and roaches. Now they no longer will touch crickets but will rip a roach from my hand. Go figure. Also sometimes tiny babies are freaked out by live food. Not always, but sometimes. So if thats the case Ill start them on something non-moving. More on feeding babies in a future post. I got plans, baby.
There is nothing wrong with feeding turkey here and there if you are out of whole prey. It will do them no harm. But I do believe that the vast majority of the diet should be whole prey items. Dont use it as a crutch. Use it as a supplement if you use it at all.
Some of you may be aware of the San Diego Zoo diet which is turkey with vitamins/calcium. There are all sorts of recipes out there and to be honest I am not 100% sure which one is the original. But all have some combination of turkey, calcium (steamed bonemeal) and vitamins (they used a crushed centrum tablet). Some of the recipes Ive seen also include eggs. But from what ive read this mix was used as 50% of the animals diet and they were given whole prey items as well. And dont forget, we're talking about a zoo here. Very experienced keepers.
For a new keeper I think its far easier to take out the guesswork and stick with whole prey. I try to make as few decisions for the monitors as possible, lol. If you feed whole prey you dont have to worry if they are getting enough of this or enough of that. Its all right there in a neat little package.
If you do want to feed some turkey here's a neat little trick. Mix up your turkey/vitamin/calcium mess, put it into ice cube trays, cover with foil and freeze it. Now you have neat little bite sized cubes of food ready to go. Each one approxiamtely the size of a small mouse. So for little guys you can defrost one and break it up. For big guys defrost as many as you need for a good meal. Neat-o.
I dont "gutload" my insects per se. I raise my own and just feed them a good diet. If you are buying your insects from a dealer then its a good idea to feed them for 24 hours before offering them to the lizards. Rodents I dont worry too much about. I use frozen mainly but I have a small colony as well that I feed Mazuri. Seems to be working.
Now on to the hoopla. In Bennets book about savannah moniotrs he mentions that in wild savs their stomache contents contained almost exclusively insects and snails. Vertibrate prey being almost non existent. This caused quite a stir and lot of people started thinking that rodents were "bad" for monitors. They lead to obesity, fatty liver disease, all sorts of problems. Hogwash I say. I have repsect for the scientific community but Im a realist and you cant argue with real world results. Keepers and breeders have been using the insect/rodent diet for quite a while and getting results. Besides how on earthw would you feet a 4' lizard nothing but insects? In the wild they have access to giant crickets, millipedes, all sorts of creepy crawlies. What can we do, feed them 500 crickets a day? I mean its just crazy. And from my own experience large monitors dont seem to recognize tiny foot. I have a croc monitor that is close to 7'. You think hes gonna eat a cricket? COULD he even if he wanted to? Its like trying to pick up a penny with a baseball mitt. Just not gonna happen.
I think it has more to do with food availability. Monitors are opportunistic feeders and scavengers to some degree. Yeah they search for food so I suppose you could call that hunting but not in what I consider the pure sense of the word. A sav eats what it can find. Maybe rodents arent plentiful where they are. Maybe they are hard to catch. I dunno. But you're telling me if a hungry wild sav came across a juicy mouse he wouldnt eat it? Fiddlesticks. Dont buy it.
This isnt a slam against Bennet. I am a big fan of his book. But a wild sav and a captive sav are two different things and we have to work with the food and tools that we have available.
I tend to believe if you have a fat monitor you have a husbandry problem, not a food problem. Sure its possible to overfeed a monitor. Certain species seem more prone to obesity than others. Ive seen some obese savs, waters and niles but Ive never seen an obese Kimberly,argus or green tree thats for sure. Some people think its the rodents thats doing it. I dont think its the rodents alone. A monitor kept too cool, in a small cage and fed like a pig may very well become obese. That same monitor kept in a large, roomy cage at the right temps and fed the same amount of food might not. Now, dont get me wrong Im not saying to stuff your poor monitor until he explodes. Im just suggesting there is more to the puzzle than meets the eye. Dont even get me started on fatty liver disease.
A healthy monitor kept under the right conditions can digest a tire. Work on your husbandry and you wont have to worry about a mouse killing a full grown blackthroat due to indigestion :)
And I dont believe you can overfeed a baby or juvie. An adult, maybe. A juvie not a chance. I've seen babies and juvies eat,bask, poop and be ready to eat again. And I feed them. I feed them until they no longer show an interest in eating. Ive seen a hell of a lot more skinny monitors than I have fat ones thats for damn skippy.
Then we have the question of variety. Some folks suggest that variety will somehow benefit the monitors. Personally, and this is just my opinion, I dont see it. As long as the animal is getting what it needs it doesnt matter if you are feeding rats or rats+chipmunks+pigeons+kangeroos. Again, I go with the KISS principle. Keep it simple, stupid. I feed insects and rodents. I dont have any problems. If I thought for a second that adding something would benefit them I would do it in a heartbeat. But in my own experience and from what Ive read from other keepers I stick with what works.
I do not think it will do any harm to vary the diet if you so choose. Some folks like to throw in some snails, crabs, birds. Thats fine. Its whole prey. I just dont think you NEED to do that. If you WANT to thats another story. But then thats more for the benefit of the keeper than the monitor. I honestly think they dont care as long as they are eating. I dont think they get bored. If they do I havent seen it. What I do worry about is giving them something that might get them off what I want them to eat. For example, lets go back to the Kimberlys. As I said they are a tad fussy as far as monitors go. I have them on a good diet now so I dont feed them any turkey at all. I dont want them to decide thats what they want now and I have to start from ground zero again. Kinda like when you crack a ball python off live and get him on frozen you dont wanna go back to live because you might undo all your hard work. Or maybe Im just paranoid, lol. But if it aint broke dont fix it.
Anyone still reading this? Man, you gotta be kidding me.
These are just my thoughts and experiences. As always your mileage may vary.
:rockon:
Today I wanted to talk a little about feeding monitors. Feeding monitors you say? But they eat anything! True for the most part. But there is some poo poo floating around out there that might be confusing if you are new to varanids.
People feed their monitors all sorts of stuff. From dog food to chicken parts to roadkill. Yup, roadkill. And they eat it. So whats the problem?
I can tell you flat out I am a huge fan of whole prey items. Namely insects and rodents. And birds (quail/chicks) if you wanna throw them in as well. Two of the top guys in the monitor game are Frank Retes and Robyn from Pro Exotics. They both use and endorse whole prey items. Who am I to argue? Im Bush. Bush-League, baby.
I feed my gang roaches and rodents. Sometimes crickets for the hatchlings since roaches can be hard for the little guys to catch. Thats it. And they are thriving and breeding on this very simple diet.
I do use fresh ground turkey to get hatchlings started if they are slow to come around. When I first got my Kimberly rocks they were a little fussy when it came to food. I got them going on fresh ground turkey. Then I started adding chopped pinkies to the mix. And slowly weaned them off the turkey and onto chop pinks. Then they started eating crickets and roaches. Now they no longer will touch crickets but will rip a roach from my hand. Go figure. Also sometimes tiny babies are freaked out by live food. Not always, but sometimes. So if thats the case Ill start them on something non-moving. More on feeding babies in a future post. I got plans, baby.
There is nothing wrong with feeding turkey here and there if you are out of whole prey. It will do them no harm. But I do believe that the vast majority of the diet should be whole prey items. Dont use it as a crutch. Use it as a supplement if you use it at all.
Some of you may be aware of the San Diego Zoo diet which is turkey with vitamins/calcium. There are all sorts of recipes out there and to be honest I am not 100% sure which one is the original. But all have some combination of turkey, calcium (steamed bonemeal) and vitamins (they used a crushed centrum tablet). Some of the recipes Ive seen also include eggs. But from what ive read this mix was used as 50% of the animals diet and they were given whole prey items as well. And dont forget, we're talking about a zoo here. Very experienced keepers.
For a new keeper I think its far easier to take out the guesswork and stick with whole prey. I try to make as few decisions for the monitors as possible, lol. If you feed whole prey you dont have to worry if they are getting enough of this or enough of that. Its all right there in a neat little package.
If you do want to feed some turkey here's a neat little trick. Mix up your turkey/vitamin/calcium mess, put it into ice cube trays, cover with foil and freeze it. Now you have neat little bite sized cubes of food ready to go. Each one approxiamtely the size of a small mouse. So for little guys you can defrost one and break it up. For big guys defrost as many as you need for a good meal. Neat-o.
I dont "gutload" my insects per se. I raise my own and just feed them a good diet. If you are buying your insects from a dealer then its a good idea to feed them for 24 hours before offering them to the lizards. Rodents I dont worry too much about. I use frozen mainly but I have a small colony as well that I feed Mazuri. Seems to be working.
Now on to the hoopla. In Bennets book about savannah moniotrs he mentions that in wild savs their stomache contents contained almost exclusively insects and snails. Vertibrate prey being almost non existent. This caused quite a stir and lot of people started thinking that rodents were "bad" for monitors. They lead to obesity, fatty liver disease, all sorts of problems. Hogwash I say. I have repsect for the scientific community but Im a realist and you cant argue with real world results. Keepers and breeders have been using the insect/rodent diet for quite a while and getting results. Besides how on earthw would you feet a 4' lizard nothing but insects? In the wild they have access to giant crickets, millipedes, all sorts of creepy crawlies. What can we do, feed them 500 crickets a day? I mean its just crazy. And from my own experience large monitors dont seem to recognize tiny foot. I have a croc monitor that is close to 7'. You think hes gonna eat a cricket? COULD he even if he wanted to? Its like trying to pick up a penny with a baseball mitt. Just not gonna happen.
I think it has more to do with food availability. Monitors are opportunistic feeders and scavengers to some degree. Yeah they search for food so I suppose you could call that hunting but not in what I consider the pure sense of the word. A sav eats what it can find. Maybe rodents arent plentiful where they are. Maybe they are hard to catch. I dunno. But you're telling me if a hungry wild sav came across a juicy mouse he wouldnt eat it? Fiddlesticks. Dont buy it.
This isnt a slam against Bennet. I am a big fan of his book. But a wild sav and a captive sav are two different things and we have to work with the food and tools that we have available.
I tend to believe if you have a fat monitor you have a husbandry problem, not a food problem. Sure its possible to overfeed a monitor. Certain species seem more prone to obesity than others. Ive seen some obese savs, waters and niles but Ive never seen an obese Kimberly,argus or green tree thats for sure. Some people think its the rodents thats doing it. I dont think its the rodents alone. A monitor kept too cool, in a small cage and fed like a pig may very well become obese. That same monitor kept in a large, roomy cage at the right temps and fed the same amount of food might not. Now, dont get me wrong Im not saying to stuff your poor monitor until he explodes. Im just suggesting there is more to the puzzle than meets the eye. Dont even get me started on fatty liver disease.
A healthy monitor kept under the right conditions can digest a tire. Work on your husbandry and you wont have to worry about a mouse killing a full grown blackthroat due to indigestion :)
And I dont believe you can overfeed a baby or juvie. An adult, maybe. A juvie not a chance. I've seen babies and juvies eat,bask, poop and be ready to eat again. And I feed them. I feed them until they no longer show an interest in eating. Ive seen a hell of a lot more skinny monitors than I have fat ones thats for damn skippy.
Then we have the question of variety. Some folks suggest that variety will somehow benefit the monitors. Personally, and this is just my opinion, I dont see it. As long as the animal is getting what it needs it doesnt matter if you are feeding rats or rats+chipmunks+pigeons+kangeroos. Again, I go with the KISS principle. Keep it simple, stupid. I feed insects and rodents. I dont have any problems. If I thought for a second that adding something would benefit them I would do it in a heartbeat. But in my own experience and from what Ive read from other keepers I stick with what works.
I do not think it will do any harm to vary the diet if you so choose. Some folks like to throw in some snails, crabs, birds. Thats fine. Its whole prey. I just dont think you NEED to do that. If you WANT to thats another story. But then thats more for the benefit of the keeper than the monitor. I honestly think they dont care as long as they are eating. I dont think they get bored. If they do I havent seen it. What I do worry about is giving them something that might get them off what I want them to eat. For example, lets go back to the Kimberlys. As I said they are a tad fussy as far as monitors go. I have them on a good diet now so I dont feed them any turkey at all. I dont want them to decide thats what they want now and I have to start from ground zero again. Kinda like when you crack a ball python off live and get him on frozen you dont wanna go back to live because you might undo all your hard work. Or maybe Im just paranoid, lol. But if it aint broke dont fix it.
Anyone still reading this? Man, you gotta be kidding me.
These are just my thoughts and experiences. As always your mileage may vary.
:rockon: