Watched the State of the Union last night. Some parts I found to be surprisingly free market oriented, and there were a few times I found myself feeling hopeful about how the president was lecturing Congress about how they needed to start putting partisan politics and bickering aside to work together in the interests of the American people. He told them they can't be in constant campaign mode.

Of course that was followed by how the Dems need to be strong and forceful in setting forth his agenda, and Republicans need to get involved and not just vote "no" all the time. He talked about fiscal responsibility (:lmao: see Jack Cafferty thread :lmao:), and transparency, despite the fact that the entire Healthcare Bill that's been the centerpiece of his presidency thus far was drafted largely by Democrats behind closed doors.

Then he gave his opinion on the recent Supreme Court decision regarding campaign finance. I'm not sure if I've ever felt that uncomfortable watching a sitting president criticize a Supreme Court decision. It doesn't really surprise me, though, because McCain-Feingold(sp?) only limited campaigning by businesses and corporations, not unions and other special interests. So, he gave orders to Congress to pass another Bill, despite this one being found unconstitutional....I'm sure a new one would be completely different, and not limit free speech at all! :rolleyes:

All in all, he spoke like he was back out on the campaign trail. He re-iterated the promises he spent the past year pissing all over. Well, at least now he wants to talk to both parties. :rolleyes: That's a first. I was hoping this speech would at least change my perception of him, if not his policies. Sorry, but I can't trust a word the guy says.

He's making BS false statements again because he wants you to vote for the dems this upcoming election. he knows he cant pass any of his back door bs with a house full of republicans. its also funny how the democratic party of his has already shot down his spending freeze approach lol. they dont want to do crap but spend,spend,spend.

I disagree. He made it very clear that he doesn't want them to turn and run. He doesn't care about what is popular politically, or even what the people want. He's telling them to push his agenda...period. He knows he needs to get it done now, or it won't get done. Most of these congressmen that have already supported his policies will not win re-election. He knows that....he is agenda driven....nothing to do with party.

This probably wouldn't be a bad thing if his policies weren't so damn anti-constitution and anti-capitalist.

I think he has bent over backwards trying to include Republicans.
They don't want anything to do with him.
The Senate Health care bill was written by 50% Republicans and 50% Democrats.

If this was the case, why didn't any of those Republicans vote for it? Why did Democrats have to bribe members of their own party to get the 60th vote? If he has bent over to include Republicans, why was the final bill drafted behind closed doors with no GOP consultation? How many meetings has he had with GOP leadership?

I know, Republicans are sore loser obstructionists. Just out of curiosity, after a year of trying to pass socialized medicine with a super majority, why hasn't it been passed? Why the bribes in Louisiana, Nebraska, and Florida? If Republicans are the problem, why didn't Reid and Pelosi just try and bribe them? Instead, they have to bribe fellow Democrats to get them on board.

For Barack Obama, including Republicans means allowing them to blindly vote for your policies. Last night, he basically said that voting no was not leadership. To lead, the Republicans must become involved by voting for the progressive agenda he sets. Does that make sense?

Let me frame this another way for you. Let's say the positions were reversed, and the GOP had a healthcare plan on the table. This plan would eliminate Medicare and ban abortion. Also, the plan would deregulate insurance companies to stimulate competition and force plaintiffs to pay all fees incurred by frivolous lawsuits.

Can you think of any Democrats that would jump on board? There is a huge difference between being an obstructionist and having a strong ideological opposition to something. It doesn't matter whic side of the fence you're on.

See thats what the problem is. The Republicans have no plan.

Why would you get rid of the most cost effective health care plan. Medicare.
The problem with Medicare is how it's funded. Not Medicare it's self.

Abortion isn't a health care problem. It's a political one.

Deregulating the insurance companys. Are you crazy?
I agree they need competition but deregulation isn't the answer.(States rights issues)
Letting the insurance companys regulate them selves would be dangerous.

Frivolous lawsuits and malpractice are a problem. But a small percentage (dollar wise) of the Health care problem. But we can work on that together.

First off, thank you for proving my argument. The proposals I just mentioned are completely contrary to your beliefs. You hold your beliefs to be true, even if I disagree with them. I'm not here to debate any of these things with you, as we can do that in another thread. The reason this discussion is important is that if you were in the minority in Congress, you could not vote for a bill that included the provisions I just mentioned. I couldn't blame you for not wanting to compromise your principles. For me to attack you for being an obstructionist would be partisan politics of the worst kind.

That is what is happening right now. Most moderate Democrats know this bill is political suicide. It's 2K pages long, provides for a huge expansion of the federal government, and is specifically prohibited by the 10th ammendment of the Constitution. Only 35% of constituents polled support it. Moderate and progressive Democrats are wheeling and dealing to push this thing through, and they're having such a hard time, they have decided to blame Republicans (who are now powerless in Congress) for being obstructionists. This is dishonest partisan nonsense. If Democrats want honest debate, they hold the power to facilitate it.

As for GOP solutions, they have presented an alternative. They've been on C-Span with it (you know, where the President promised all health care debates would be held for the public to see....there goes that promise). They've presented it as best they can, but with no power, and a majority that refuses compromise, it has been difficult. Here's a link if you'd like to check out some of their proposals.

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely! A democratic president with a democratic majority House and a democratic majority Senate kinda sounds like absolute power to me. The Republicans can't do a heck of a lot to stop anything. So far, nothing's gotten passed because of the infighting and backroom bribes between the Democrats!

I think that's part of the problem as well. Neither Senators nor Representatives were designed to have power. They are in Washington to represent the will of the people of their respective states. If any of them cared about that anymore, this health care bill would not even be being discussed.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely! A democratic president with a democratic majority House and a democratic majority Senate kinda sounds like absolute power to me. The Republicans can't do a heck of a lot to stop anything. So far, nothing's gotten passed because of the infighting and backroom bribes between the Democrats!


(To back you up)
Theres 60 dems in the senate and 40 republicans,
again there not fighting Democrats VS. Republicans its
Democrats VS. Democrats. they seem to keep stumbling over themselves and can't get anything to pass.

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

The GOP has ideas on reforming health care, but since it does not have a public option I guess it isn't valid?

This is about perception becoming reality, Jen. That's the same link I posted earlier, and I'm sure all we had to do to find it is type "GOP health care solution" into the browser. We didn't have to look far to find it.

Now, President Obama has given over 400 speeches during his first year in office. He has repeatedly called Republicans obstructionists, and criticized their lack of a plan. How many people do you think even bothered to check? He and the progressive Democrats in Congress repeat the same argument, until people begin to consider it fact. The media is no better. Has anyone here heard anything about the GOP plan on any mainstream media outlet?

Much like his errors with regards to the Supreme Court decision, attention to the issue is being misdirected. Leaders in Washington and the media are both talking about Alito's reaction instead of the fact that foreign individuals, companies, or subsidiaries thereof may not finance US political campaigns...period. This did not change.

When discussing health care, the media is covering the few people wielding Hitler signs and ignoring the slogans that went with them, such as Hitler being one of the first leaders to advocate the universal health care system. They portray Tea Party protesters as violent despite no arrests being made at any of the protests. They forget to mention why they are protesting.

(To back you up)
Theres 60 dems in the senate and 40 republicans,
again there not fighting Democrats VS. Republicans its
Democrats VS. Democrats. they seem to keep stumbling over themselves and can't get anything to pass.

That's because they're too busy scrambling to find ways to line THEIR pockets before they get voted out! :lmao:

That's because they're too busy scrambling to find ways to line THEIR pockets before they get voted out! :lmao:

Yeah, I'm hoping that happens. :yessir:

I think he has bent over backwards trying to include Republicans.
They don't want anything to do with him.
The Senate Health care bill was written by 50% Republicans and 50% Democrats.

See thats what the problem is. The Republicans have no plan.

Why would you get rid of the most cost effective health care plan. Medicare.
The problem with Medicare is how it's funded. Not Medicare it's self.

Abortion isn't a health care problem. It's a political one.

Deregulating the insurance companys. Are you crazy?
I agree they need competition but deregulation isn't the answer.(States rights issues)
Letting the insurance companys regulate them selves would be dangerous.

Frivolous lawsuits and malpractice are a problem. But a small percentage (dollar wise) of the Health care problem. But we can work on that together.

Which is it Claude...How can the Rep. write 50% of the bill but have no plan?

Yeah, I'm hoping that happens. :yessir:

Yeah, I'm hoping that happens. :yessir:

It is happening...Masshole was the latest...Remember Virginia and NJ? But this admin is too bind to see it...The majority of Americans don't want his BS agenda...

But this admin is too bind to see it...The majority of Americans don't want his BS agenda...
I disagree insofar that I think they do see it. They just hold their agenda paramount above all things. The president knows he's throwing the rest of his party under the proverbial bus, but he doesn't care. He has reached the point of no return, here. The people know what he stands for, and we know how Congress has been dealing over the past year. Any credibility he had has been squandered over the past 12 months, so he's going all out on getting this passed.