Ok check this out:

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=53&de=644638

Is it me or does this seem highly unlikely? Captive born and bred savs for $35? Lets think about that. Think about how much it costs to raise, cage, heat and feed a pair of adult savs. I checked out this sellers site and he obviously is not a breeder. So that would mean he would have had to purchase these animals from a breeder. There are only a handful of sav breeders in the whole freakin' world. We have one right here with us (Hi Tokay!) Soooo what did he pay the breeder? $20? $15? It just doesnt make sense to me.

I dont know the seller but I checked out his site. Loads of wild caught stuff.

Then look at the picture. Do those look like captive bred monitors to you? Look at the tails. They look dehydrated to me. All crammed in what looks like a 10 gallon fish tank. I could be wrong on the size of the tank but if you got your hands on something as rare as CB savs would you pile them up in a small fish tank? I wouldnt.

I think they are wild caught. And that bothers me. I dont have a problem with wild caught animals. EVERYTHING was wild caught at one time. What I do have a problem with is misrepresenting animals.

If Im wrong someone tell me Im wrong and Ill apologize profusely.

Yeah, it's highly unlikely. My guess is that he bought them as CB, so he's just relisting them as such, because he does have WC stuff listed on there, and there's no reason to lie about having CB savs when realistically the people who would care about CB savs probably would know the few who are breeding them, and buy them directly.

Personally I think you're right on ALL points.

Wow, I think that's the longest sentence I've ever used... LOL. I should perhaps proof read my posts before I hit enter... :lmao:

Wow, I think that's the longest sentence I've ever used... LOL. I should perhaps proof read my posts before I hit enter... :lmao:

Dont worry buddy I followed ya :)

Wow, I think that's the longest sentence I've ever used... LOL. I should perhaps proof read my posts before I hit enter... :lmao:

It was a good post, glad you came back up for air though.... :yessir:

Yeah, it's highly unlikely. My guess is that he bought them as CB, so he's just relisting them as such, because he does have WC stuff listed on there, and there's no reason to lie about having CB savs when realistically the people who would care about CB savs probably would know the few who are breeding them, and buy them directly.

I just dont like seeing stuff listed as CBB when it isnt.

I understand wht you're saying. A serious varanid collector will seek out the few breeders out there and patiently wait for a CB hatchling if thats what they truly want.

But Im thinking of the newbies who will just assume its CB because its listed as such. And then wind up with a WC animal that can have a whole host of problems. Back in my younger days I was sold "CB" animals with TICKS on them. I just dont have any patience for misleading the buyer. Even if they dont care if its WC or CB they should KNOW what it is so they can take the proper precautions.

And there is a small reason to lie, or lets just say "assume its CB because Joe Schmoe said it was". Passing the buck so to speak. People like the idea of CB animals. Makes them feel more comfortable. Makes them think they are getting a better, healthier animal. Just rubs me the wrong way. How many CB ball pythons are being sold with scars and ticks? Ive seen MANY!

I agree Big-V false advertising is flase advertising and is wrong if not criminal in my book.

I just dont like seeing stuff listed as CBB when it isnt.

I understand wht you're saying. A serious varanid collector will seek out the few breeders out there and patiently wait for a CB hatchling if thats what they truly want.

But Im thinking of the newbies who will just assume its CB because its listed as such. And then wind up with a WC animal that can have a whole host of problems. Back in my younger days I was sold "CB" animals with TICKS on them. I just dont have any patience for misleading the buyer. Even if they dont care if its WC or CB they should KNOW what it is so they can take the proper precautions.

And there is a small reason to lie, or lets just say "assume its CB because Joe Schmoe said it was". Passing the buck so to speak. People like the idea of CB animals. Makes them feel more comfortable. Makes them think they are getting a better, healthier animal. Just rubs me the wrong way. How many CB ball pythons are being sold with scars and ticks? Ive seen MANY!

Oh, I definitely agree with you. I'm just saying that, if this guy doesn't know any better, and isn't necessarily a monitor guy, maybe he isn't aware that CB savs are still quite uncommon. Now if he knows they aren't CB and he's selling them as such, well...scum like that put a bad name on the reptile industry.

That i know of besides myself,there are about 2 other people in the U.S. that have actually and successfully bred Savi's into F3 CBB stock.
It seems to me alot of people are misundertood on the difference beetween CBB and CH.
Alot of wholesalers/importers etc.,think that because it was farmed in Africa that they are CBB.
WELL IF ITS BORN FROM A WC THEN ITS A WC.Just because it may have been born in captivity it does not come from a captive parent and no attempt was made on the breeding on the sellers part!
Nuff said!!!!:cool:
Oh and i can garuntee that CBB are not cheap.Next season i will have some for sale and there not going to be 30$ i can tell you that!

To me captive hatched, farm raised, all that jazz just means wild caught. Which is just peachy keen if that is what you are looking for.

I mean Im interested in black roughnecks. Id like to get a trio in the next year. I dont know anyone in the world who is breeding them. I heard about a lady in Canada who hatched a few thats about it. So 99.99 Im going to be buying wild caught animals. Okey Dokey Smokey! Im ready!'

Just dont tell me they are CAPTIVE HATCHED or Ill give you a purple nurple.

To me captive hatched, farm raised, all that jazz just means wild caught. Which is just peachy keen if that is what you are looking for.

I mean Im interested in black roughnecks. Id like to get a trio in the next year. I dont know anyone in the world who is breeding them. I heard about a lady in Canada who hatched a few thats about it. So 99.99 Im going to be buying wild caught animals. Okey Dokey Smokey! Im ready!'

Just dont tell me they are CAPTIVE HATCHED or Ill give you a purple nurple.

So you disagree with Pro Exotics selling their blackthroats as "Captive Hatched"?

So you disagree with Pro Exotics selling their blackthroats as "Captive Hatched"?


I dont disagree with it. What Im saying is *I* personally consider it a wild caught animal. Which again, is just fine if thats what you're looking for.

If its hatched in captivity you can say it was hatched in captivity if you want. To me, its a wild caught animal. Others may think its somehow better. Its all a matter of opinion.

You wont see PE selling them as CBB thats for sure. I have tremendous repsect for Robyn and Chad. I dont consider saying its CH misrepreseting the animal if thats what it is. I just personally dont consider CH any more desireable then WC.

I dont disagree with it. What Im saying is *I* personally consider it a wild caught animal. Which again, is just fine if thats what you're looking for.

If its hatched in captivity you can say it was hatched in captivity if you want. To me, its a wild caught animal. Others may think its somehow better. Its all a matter of opinion.

You wont see PE selling them as CBB thats for sure. I have tremendous repsect for Robyn and Chad. I dont consider saying its CH misrepreseting the animal if thats what it is. I just personally dont consider CH any more desireable then WC.

Just checking! I know for sure that PE wouldn't misrepresent the animals that they are selling, just getting your perspective on the situation. Personally, and this is coming from Ball Pythons, I feel that CH are high above bringing in wild caught juveniles or adults. CH baby ball pythons are much easier to acclimate to captivity than are WC adults, and I don't know why the same wouldn't be true for other species.

So I guess, I don't see CH being the same as WC, they were hatched in a captive yet perhaps "primitive" environment, and yes may acquire parasite loads the same as could WC... but as far as ease of care and health, they're generally easier to get started.

Great discussion BTW!

Just checking! I know for sure that PE wouldn't misrepresent the animals that they are selling, just getting your perspective on the situation. Personally, and this is coming from Ball Pythons, I feel that CH are high above bringing in wild caught juveniles or adults. CH baby ball pythons are much easier to acclimate to captivity than are WC adults, and I don't know why the same wouldn't be true for other species.

So I guess, I don't see CH being the same as WC, they were hatched in a captive yet perhaps "primitive" environment, and yes may acquire parasite loads the same as could WC... but as far as ease of care and health, they're generally easier to get started.

Great discussion BTW!


Very good discussion Jknudson.

I do see your point about the ball pythons. Monitors are a little more tricky. Snakes are much more resilent and seem to adapt better. Thats why there are so many species of snake being bred and morphed etc and only a handful of lizards. I mean besides beardeds, leos and cresties what other lizard is really being produced in large numbers?

And I would agree that a CH anything is easier to acclimate than a wild caught adult or juvie. But a CH baby and a WC baby monitor to me isnt really much different at all.

I am no expert but they look WC just like one Scott and I saw at a pet store chain the other day

Btw: Tokay let me know if and when you get some true CBB as might want one or two

I never find them that price anymore but about 4 years ago I actually purchased mine CBB from a very trusted breeder and I only paid $25. To my knowledge he had a few generations of cbb, but he no longer keeps savs because it's hard to compete with farmed imports. I'd like to get a cbb female eventually but I need a much bigger cage.