ok so im very interested in breeding snakes as a full time job. but i have so many species im interested in and then the morphs of some of those species on top of that. now most breeders ive seen have 4 or 5 species they work with and thats it. would it be wise to do differnt species or pic 4 or 5 i like.
im thinking boas- bcc, bco, bcl, bca, and mabe hogs, kings black mex, az mnt's and morph brooksi, pythons- bloods, gtp, carpets, and random colubrids - false waters, morph bulls, and mabe corns. my thoughts to get around this delema are breed a select 4 to 6 species as my main core breeding, and keep small numbers of select species just more hobby style for instance false water cobras arnt ganna sell that fast probably keep mabe just a pair or 2 of those along with
a few other species mabe like the occidentalis boas witch probably arnt ganna fly off the shelf. still sell them onthe site but like i said keep it at a hobby level not a large scale . what do you guys thing any opinions are ganna be greatly apreciated thanks a ton
travis

That's a lot of different species you wanna play with there LOL. You might try a couple different types to start. Then when you get it down to a science expand a bit at a time. Get to much goin' at once and it won't be long and you'll be overwhelmed by it all.

I agree with what Eugene Basset(sp?) said on Reptile Radio. He said something to the effect of you have to produce what the people want not what you like if this is your business. I think you're already on the right track. You know that not many people are going to be interested in false water cobras. So even if you love them it probably wouldnt be a good idea to fill a warehouse with breeder adults.

I really like your idea of choosing 4-6 core species and maybe branching out from there and have a few pet projects. From what I have seen the successful breeders tend to focus on a select few animals and not be all over the board. There are exceptions, of course. Brian from BHB has everything. He has snakes Ive never heard of. And he's a successful guy. But *most* of the big boys have their select few and their projects on the side.

I do think you need to diversify a bit in todays market. Yes, I know there are some breeders who just do ball pythons or just do boas and they do well. Greg Maxwell comes to mind with his GTPs. But I think by having a selection without going hogwild you open up a broader customer base.

Anthony from ACReptiles does mainly leopard geckos, cresties and carpets. Im sure he has some other stuff lurking about. I believe he mentioned he has about 30 ball pythons. But his "core" is geckos/carpets.

It really depends on how serious you are about doing this full time. Above all you should work with something you like. I mean, I am not a huge tortoise fan. I like them dont get me wrong but I would not be happy tending 500 tortoises. So you should at least have an interest in what you are keeping. While bearing in mind that you have to follow the market to some degree as well. You mentioned you like boas. Thats a fine place to start I think. Boas are popular and seem to be gaining ground lately as more locality specific animals and morphs become available. Colubrids will always sell but I dont think they have the same appeal as the boids. Who knows, that might change. I remember when corn morphs were smoking. They didnt command huge dollars but they sold like crazy.

If I can use our ever lovin' BT as an example I really like how he has his gig set up. He has his ball pythons (125-150 BT?) and also has some boas, womas, bloods and carpets. If Im not mistaken hes not doing colubrids any more. So his collection is focused on boids. Oh and a bunch of crested geckos which actually surprised me when he got those! I didnt see him as a creatures with legs kinda guy. But I really like how he is set up. Obviously the ball pythons are the main thing but those other snakes are solid. People love womas and not too many people are producing them. Nice carpets will always sell. Bloods I think are a niche market as they have a bad rep but their popularity is slowly climbing as well MHO. Plus BT CAREFULLY selects his breeders. Take a look at some of his pics. You wont find any pastels that look like normals lemme tell ya.

Now you mention GTPs. I mould tread carefully with those guys. They are notoriously difficult to reproduce. You may want to gain some experience with the "easier" species before you dive into the more difficult ones. Im not saying you cant breed them or that its impossible. Not at all. Just, if it were me, I would start with animals where I had a the best chance of being able to breed them, hatch the eggs and rear the babies.

If its just a hobby that you make a little cash on the side with then you dont have to be so cautious. If thats the case then I say keep what you want and let the chips fall where they may. But if you're a business then you gotta think like a business person.

Me? Im strictly a hobbyist. I keep just a few species that I am madly in love with and if they breed I sell the babies. Thats it. If they never breed again I dont care I like having them around. But the small amount of money Ive made over the years helps to defer the cost of keeping them which is nice. I am not profitable. Not by any means. But if I could even break even Id be happy.

My two cents.

Damn good 2cents V!

Yea man work with what you enjoy but big your collection practically.. By practically I mean do your volume with the more popular species..

Either way good luck achieving your goal. I share that dream as well..:)

I agree with what Eugene Basset(sp?) said on Reptile Radio. He said something to the effect of you have to produce what the people want not what you like if this is your business. I think you're already on the right track. You know that not many people are going to be interested in false water cobras. So even if you love them it probably wouldnt be a good idea to fill a warehouse with breeder adults.

I really like your idea of choosing 4-6 core species and maybe branching out from there and have a few pet projects. From what I have seen the successful breeders tend to focus on a select few animals and not be all over the board. There are exceptions, of course. Brian from BHB has everything. He has snakes Ive never heard of. And he's a successful guy. But *most* of the big boys have their select few and their projects on the side.

I do think you need to diversify a bit in todays market. Yes, I know there are some breeders who just do ball pythons or just do boas and they do well. Greg Maxwell comes to mind with his GTPs. But I think by having a selection without going hogwild you open up a broader customer base.

Anthony from ACReptiles does mainly leopard geckos, cresties and carpets. Im sure he has some other stuff lurking about. I believe he mentioned he has about 30 ball pythons. But his "core" is geckos/carpets.

It really depends on how serious you are about doing this full time. Above all you should work with something you like. I mean, I am not a huge tortoise fan. I like them dont get me wrong but I would not be happy tending 500 tortoises. So you should at least have an interest in what you are keeping. While bearing in mind that you have to follow the market to some degree as well. You mentioned you like boas. Thats a fine place to start I think. Boas are popular and seem to be gaining ground lately as more locality specific animals and morphs become available. Colubrids will always sell but I dont think they have the same appeal as the boids. Who knows, that might change. I remember when corn morphs were smoking. They didnt command huge dollars but they sold like crazy.

If I can use our ever lovin' BT as an example I really like how he has his gig set up. He has his ball pythons (125-150 BT?) and also has some boas, womas, bloods and carpets. If Im not mistaken hes not doing colubrids any more. So his collection is focused on boids. Oh and a bunch of crested geckos which actually surprised me when he got those! I didnt see him as a creatures with legs kinda guy. But I really like how he is set up. Obviously the ball pythons are the main thing but those other snakes are solid. People love womas and not too many people are producing them. Nice carpets will always sell. Bloods I think are a niche market as they have a bad rep but their popularity is slowly climbing as well MHO. Plus BT CAREFULLY selects his breeders. Take a look at some of his pics. You wont find any pastels that look like normals lemme tell ya.

Now you mention GTPs. I mould tread carefully with those guys. They are notoriously difficult to reproduce. You may want to gain some experience with the "easier" species before you dive into the more difficult ones. Im not saying you cant breed them or that its impossible. Not at all. Just, if it were me, I would start with animals where I had a the best chance of being able to breed them, hatch the eggs and rear the babies.

If its just a hobby that you make a little cash on the side with then you dont have to be so cautious. If thats the case then I say keep what you want and let the chips fall where they may. But if you're a business then you gotta think like a business person.

Me? Im strictly a hobbyist. I keep just a few species that I am madly in love with and if they breed I sell the babies. Thats it. If they never breed again I dont care I like having them around. But the small amount of money Ive made over the years helps to defer the cost of keeping them which is nice. I am not profitable. Not by any means. But if I could even break even Id be happy.

My two cents.

Very good post V!!!

Ditto on the post V

In my opinion, it's better to do one species well, than to do five species poorly.
If you are newer to breeding, I'd reccomend picking one species to begin with, and get that "down pat". Pick one of the more popular species, so you'll have a market for what you produce.
Once you get one species going, you could add another. This way you wouldn't be trying to juggle a lot of unfamiliar breeding projects at the same time.
You can "cheat" also, and get some animals that take longer to mature, and while those are growing to size, get some of the faster maturing ones to work with.
Get the best broodstock that you can, so that you can produce the best "product". If you're known for quality, you can't go too wrong.
Best of luck.

thank you everyone for all of your helpful info. i was thinking it over and im ganna keep a core group of stuff to breed and then have my pet projects. witch will work out great for me. as for breeding gtp's ive already got a pair ive had for years now and im ganna try them next year ill probably keep them more a pet project though. ill keep you all posted with my progress and one day ill be a big time breeder. v thank you the most for our 2 cents thats exactly what i was thinking and just needed someone else to say it to reasure myself and you added more on top of what i was thinking so thank you so much.

thank you everyone for all of your helpful info. i was thinking it over and im ganna keep a core group of stuff to breed and then have my pet projects. witch will work out great for me. as for breeding gtp's ive already got a pair ive had for years now and im ganna try them next year ill probably keep them more a pet project though. ill keep you all posted with my progress and one day ill be a big time breeder. v thank you the most for our 2 cents thats exactly what i was thinking and just needed someone else to say it to reasure myself and you added more on top of what i was thinking so thank you so much.

You're welcome and good luck!

For sure keep us updated on your progress. I wanna see baby GTPs and I wont take no for an answer! Get to it, soldier! :yessir:

this is the breeding projects ive got going on in my head not sure whats pet projects yet or
whatever but here are my thoughts
black mex kings, dh albino/hypo florida kings, az mtn kings, assorted corn morphs ( more for my little girl than anything)
blood pythons, borneo pythons ( marbles for sure ) , carpets, green tree pythons, false water cobras, bull morphs ( ive got a pair of quad hets im really excited about breeding next year) as for boas im not sure ive worked with lots of different boa locals but
see occidentalis is kinda moody and probably wont sell that well, in case no one knows latins on boa constrictors its the argentine boa. and then youve got longicauda(peruvian long tail or black tail ( very cool species little more rare. but may not strike the market very well cuz there ugly ducklings that dont get pritty tell they reach sexual maturity ( the argentines are also this way) and then youve got amarali ( bolivian boas or short tail boas ) very pritty boas and they stay on the smaller size thats nice. then youve got constrictor constrictor very nice but they get huge . then youve got constrictor imperator and if your ganna get one of those it beter be a morph cuz the normals are the typical run of the mill boa that you get in every petco and mom and pop shop . tho it was my first breeding project and i had 17 live and 2 slugs thats what got me the first time i ever bred somthing and then it just keeps hooking me in.

Thats quite the list you got there.

Quad het bulls, huh? Interesting. What are they quad het for? I like the pits (gophers/bulls/pines). Dont hear too much about them. Great hissers thats for sure :)

Love the mex blacks.

Lots of other good stuff in there. Ya dig those false water cobras? Thats cool. I know nada about them. Maybe share a little info on their care with the gang?

Boas. I dunno. So many out there and I admit I get a little confused. When you start combining localities with morphs it gets nuts. The amarali are nice. And Ill always have a soft spot for a sharp surinam red tail.

Thats quite the list you got there.

Quad het bulls, huh? Interesting. What are they quad het for? I like the pits (gophers/bulls/pines). Dont hear too much about them. Great hissers thats for sure :)

Love the mex blacks.

Lots of other good stuff in there. Ya dig those false water cobras? Thats cool. I know nada about them. Maybe share a little info on their care with the gang?

Boas. I dunno. So many out there and I admit I get a little confused. When you start combining localities with morphs it gets nuts. The amarali are nice. And Ill always have a soft spot for a sharp surinam red tail.

to awnser your questions the bull ive got are 1.1 albino male and snow female both quad het for albino+snow+ghost+hypo im very excited about that pair i got them from jon at new age reptile. i agree i love bulls ive also got a female normal just cuz i like them so much i fell in love with them a few years ago my mentor toby had one and we used it for educational stuff all the time. as for great hissers haha thats for sure the albinos nick names grumpy haha
as for mex blacks i love them 2 besides indigos where else can you get a jet black snake. as for false waters i love them, diurnal , alert , huge, rear fanged, smart and alot of fun to work with. theres some in deepth info on the false water cobra thread i started. and any qustions youve got after that feel free to ask on that post and ill get back to you. as for the boas yeah boas can get pritty confusing im more into locals than morphs but i agree amaralis are really pritty, and so is surinams ive had a pair of both. i sold them tho when my daughter was born .

Amarali are my all time fav boa.

One of the things I've noticed is the BCC seem to be a bit harder to sell. Gus Rentfroe has mentioned this more than a few times. I think its a mix that the BCC aren't as bullet proof as BCI and will typically go belly up faster with a novice keeper than a BCI will. Add in that to this day they are still considered more difficult to breed than BCI and most will not want them. Call it a market trend but most of the newer keepers coming in are looking for easy to keep , easy to breed and what they think are easy to sell species.

There is also a big push for the dwarf species of boas and about the only thing keeping BCI on the map is the long term status in the hobby and the amount of pattern & color morphs. The dwarf species are gaining tho as more and more folks are looking for species that can be kept in racks instead of full blown cages.

The way we are set up , our base group is selective bred BCI morphs and in turn normals and the Missus is setting up a core group of Leos as well. The dwarf boas , BPs , colubrids and blood pythons are all side projects with a smidgen of stuff we like but not large groups of each.

I plan on adding Blackhead Pythons , Bredli and few more bloods and building up the Western Hognose colony. Other than the BCI , Leos and Western Hognose , everything else will likely stay at either 1 02 trios or 1 or 2 pairs of each as dabble projects.

I gave up trying to speculate on the best way to build a reptile business right now as EVERYTHING is totally fluid and changes daily. Until the economy stabilizes for more than 1 - 3 days at a time , a business plan started on Monday may be useless by Wednesday and could very well need revising on a constant basis.

The reptile hobby / industry will always be a frivolous market as the animals are not nor ever will be a " needed must have " item that keeps folks fed , housed or able to get to work. It ranks up there with tanning salons , movie rentals etc. and will fluctuate as the economy fluctuates. If your business doesn't include a way to hang on to babies during times and allow for insane price drops with the ability to still pull a profit , then it will have a higher possibility of failure.

You may also want to think of an excess of equipment with money stashed to buy into the next big thing to keep the company fluid. Unfortunately you can build a business working with what you like but not working with some of what people want, even if its not something you like, could hold you back.

In my opinion, it's better to do one species well, than to do five species poorly.
If you are newer to breeding, I'd reccomend picking one species to begin with, and get that "down pat". Pick one of the more popular species, so you'll have a market for what you produce.
Once you get one species going, you could add another. This way you wouldn't be trying to juggle a lot of unfamiliar breeding projects at the same time.
You can "cheat" also, and get some animals that take longer to mature, and while those are growing to size, get some of the faster maturing ones to work with.
Get the best broodstock that you can, so that you can produce the best "product". If you're known for quality, you can't go too wrong.
Best of luck.

I am a hobbyist TOTALLY out of control!! I don't own even ONE reptile that is not a ball python -- and I have more than a few of those -- it is a part time job for sure -- a job I DIG. My issue is that I am an extremist by nature. I can't dabble with most things -- in for a penny -- in for a pound -- ALL the way!!!

Understand, I like a lot of other reptiles, leos, hogs, boas(although they get too damn big after a few years for my liking) to name a few. If I got any of those, i would HAVE to breed them -- and not just a trio if you get my drift.

Point is, I too believe there is virtue in moving vertically with one species rather than horizontally with 5-6. My 2 cents.

Dag! I'm going to check out that Hypo Super Tangerine Leopard Gecko I saw earlier today. I just got to have one of those -- just for a pet.;)

Good luck with your journey -- whichever way you head...

I think Tremper has it right.

3 bread and butter species
1 experimental project that could put the icing on the cake
1 project that is 2-3 years out

ok so ive narrowed it down for now haha yeah right
black mex kings , az mnt kings, hypo/ albino florida kings and a few misc corns ... hypo fwcs, biak gtps, and jungle and jag carpets , bloods- all sorts of morphs, thats my list and im sticking 2 it, ive almost got a pair of each of those and ill breed those see how i like them and then go from there, and then work my way up to the jag carpets and i ivory bloods and what not, anyway i was just thinking about this topic and thought i would give an update not much has changed i still feel that this is to many differnt things but i cant make myself get rid of any of them so yeah hope it all works out for the best

ok so the current breeding idea is this breed a pair of each of the animals im interested and see there it goes from there a pair of each of these black kings, florida kings ( albino to hypo) , az mnt kings, hypo fwcs, jungle carpets, bloods, gtps, bull ( both quad hets) , and some corns, so those are the plans this year ill be picking up a pair of carpets and a female hypo fwc, a male blood, and the kings that my friend is holding for me so those are the plans look for future updates

I agree with what Eugene Basset(sp?) said on Reptile Radio. He said something to the effect of you have to produce what the people want not what you like if this is your business. I think you're already on the right track. You know that not many people are going to be interested in false water cobras. So even if you love them it probably wouldnt be a good idea to fill a warehouse with breeder adults.

I really like your idea of choosing 4-6 core species and maybe branching out from there and have a few pet projects. From what I have seen the successful breeders tend to focus on a select few animals and not be all over the board. There are exceptions, of course. Brian from BHB has everything. He has snakes Ive never heard of. And he's a successful guy. But *most* of the big boys have their select few and their projects on the side.

I do think you need to diversify a bit in todays market. Yes, I know there are some breeders who just do ball pythons or just do boas and they do well. Greg Maxwell comes to mind with his GTPs. But I think by having a selection without going hogwild you open up a broader customer base.

Anthony from ACReptiles does mainly leopard geckos, cresties and carpets. Im sure he has some other stuff lurking about. I believe he mentioned he has about 30 ball pythons. But his "core" is geckos/carpets.

It really depends on how serious you are about doing this full time. Above all you should work with something you like. I mean, I am not a huge tortoise fan. I like them dont get me wrong but I would not be happy tending 500 tortoises. So you should at least have an interest in what you are keeping. While bearing in mind that you have to follow the market to some degree as well. You mentioned you like boas. Thats a fine place to start I think. Boas are popular and seem to be gaining ground lately as more locality specific animals and morphs become available. Colubrids will always sell but I dont think they have the same appeal as the boids. Who knows, that might change. I remember when corn morphs were smoking. They didnt command huge dollars but they sold like crazy.

If I can use our ever lovin' BT as an example I really like how he has his gig set up. He has his ball pythons (125-150 BT?) and also has some boas, womas, bloods and carpets. If Im not mistaken hes not doing colubrids any more. So his collection is focused on boids. Oh and a bunch of crested geckos which actually surprised me when he got those! I didnt see him as a creatures with legs kinda guy. But I really like how he is set up. Obviously the ball pythons are the main thing but those other snakes are solid. People love womas and not too many people are producing them. Nice carpets will always sell. Bloods I think are a niche market as they have a bad rep but their popularity is slowly climbing as well MHO. Plus BT CAREFULLY selects his breeders. Take a look at some of his pics. You wont find any pastels that look like normals lemme tell ya.

Now you mention GTPs. I mould tread carefully with those guys. They are notoriously difficult to reproduce. You may want to gain some experience with the "easier" species before you dive into the more difficult ones. Im not saying you cant breed them or that its impossible. Not at all. Just, if it were me, I would start with animals where I had a the best chance of being able to breed them, hatch the eggs and rear the babies.

If its just a hobby that you make a little cash on the side with then you dont have to be so cautious. If thats the case then I say keep what you want and let the chips fall where they may. But if you're a business then you gotta think like a business person.

Me? Im strictly a hobbyist. I keep just a few species that I am madly in love with and if they breed I sell the babies. Thats it. If they never breed again I dont care I like having them around. But the small amount of money Ive made over the years helps to defer the cost of keeping them which is nice. I am not profitable. Not by any means. But if I could even break even Id be happy.

My two cents.


two cents hell... that is worth atleast a nickle

two cents hell... that is worth atleast a nickle

thats in the realm of a few bucks actually it really has been a post im very fond of thanks again V.

I've been listening to Reptile Radio for a few months now, and while I'm at work, I listen to the mp3s of the older shows. Off the top of my head, I can recall that Anthony Caponetto, BW Smith, and Ben Renick all have full-time or part-time jobs that don't involve reptiles. Each of these guys has alluded to the fact that they still have to pay the mortgage and put food on the table should something happen to their reptiles or the reptile market. Even Adam Wysocki talked about stashing money away from when he was working full time just in case he has a bad month (or two or three) as a full-time ball python breeder. Garrick DeMyer said it took him FOREVER to be able to breed reptiles full-time.

I don't know if you are currently working a 9-5, but my suggestion is not to quit just yet. You are dealing with a wildly fluctuating market, including people who are out to crash it. Also, there is always the possibility of legislation that will shut your business down for good. I like to see the bush league breeders succeed, but don't put all your eggs in one basket, er, incubator.

I maintain about 50 animals, personally, and the collection is all over the place. I've got about 10 balls, a pair of burms, some colubrids, and other assorted odds and ends. The way I see things, I work a 9-5 so that I am able to keep reptiles. If my reptile hobby ever progresses to the point where it could sustain me and pay my mortgage, that would be great, but it would be a gradual transition. I've realized that this is not an endeavor that happens overnight.

Good luck to you!

I've been listening to Reptile Radio for a few months now, and while I'm at work, I listen to the mp3s of the older shows. Off the top of my head, I can recall that Anthony Caponetto, BW Smith, and Ben Renick all have full-time or part-time jobs that don't involve reptiles. Each of these guys has alluded to the fact that they still have to pay the mortgage and put food on the table should something happen to their reptiles or the reptile market. Even Adam Wysocki talked about stashing money away from when he was working full time just in case he has a bad month (or two or three) as a full-time ball python breeder. Garrick DeMyer said it took him FOREVER to be able to breed reptiles full-time.

I don't know if you are currently working a 9-5, but my suggestion is not to quit just yet. You are dealing with a wildly fluctuating market, including people who are out to crash it. Also, there is always the possibility of legislation that will shut your business down for good. I like to see the bush league breeders succeed, but don't put all your eggs in one basket, er, incubator.

I maintain about 50 animals, personally, and the collection is all over the place. I've got about 10 balls, a pair of burms, some colubrids, and other assorted odds and ends. The way I see things, I work a 9-5 so that I am able to keep reptiles. If my reptile hobby ever progresses to the point where it could sustain me and pay my mortgage, that would be great, but it would be a gradual transition. I've realized that this is not an endeavor that happens overnight.

Good luck to you!

i know it isnt the easyest thing in the world and truth is the moment im not having a fun ill make it a hobby again i would just really like it to pay the bills but if it doesnt thats fine 2 i love doing it and ive always belelved you shoud do what you love. i have plenty of avenues to go down, breeding snakes or educating people about reptiles, or who knows and im a supervisor at home depot they pay the bills this thread is a fun way for me to share my hopes dreams and ideas with my fellow bush leaguers even if its a bit of fantacy mabe, but thats all it will ever be is a dream unless you make it become a realitly and if you never try and say oh well its never gonna happen you have already givin up before youve tryed. i would rather say i tryed and i tryed and i failed than i cant try and yeah it aint going to happen over night no radical change could. thank you all for all of your advise youve givin and the advise your yet to give i thank you all very much and cant wait to see the next clutch