Not sure how many peeps on here are teachers but was throwing this one out there for a topic of debate. My fiance is a teacher and she supports the new bill that holds teachers accountable for their "production." We had read somewhere awhile back that in NC there is a town or maybe it was just 1 district that offers teachers the opportunity to forfeit their tenure for the potential to make more money. Their jobs are not guaranteed but if they can show positive results they can make anywhere from 10-25k more per year than a tenure teacher. I believe that teachers need to start being held more accountable for their students results and making our youth smart to benefit us in the future... How ya'll feel?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36591989/ns/politics-the_new_york_times

My mom is a teacher and although I don't believe in tenure, I also don't believe a standardized test is a very good way to judge a teachers worth. Here in FL we recently had that very idea passed as a bill and the gov vetoed it and rightly so, as it doesn't really address the real problems of the education system.

I understand the anger towards gov employees, much of it VERY justified, however teachers are the lowest paid and have the worst benefits of and gov workers in FL. They also are handcuffed by the emphisis on the FCAT test as opposed to focusing on the fundemental three R's.

A large part of the problem is not poor teachers, but uninvolved parents that are not willing to take even the smallest interest in their childs education. The stories I hear from my Mom and other teachers about the number of kids living in a household that has the moral compass of a Jerry Springer show really makes me pessemistic about the future.

I feel that the whole merit pay issue is just another attempt to patch a failed and crumbling education system and they are laying the responsabilty of failed policy and morally bankrupt families in the laps of people that have no controll over either issue. I vollenteer at my daughters school and I can say most teachers are doing the very best they can, but have both hands tied behind their backs as they have to teach to a test, make everyone feel "special" even if the kid is a waste of oxygen, and tip toe along a line of paralyzing political correctness.

Bottom line is there has to be a return to simplicity. Drop the focus on standardized testing, after all everyone learns at a different pace and tempo should not be a primary concern..... a full understanding of the subject matter is the ultimate goal. Accountability for students, parents and teachers! If the lump of mush in the back corner doesn't want to put the effort in to learn then SEE YA! Enough of allowing these types of kids to disrupt those that want to learn and enough of allowing the schools to be taxpayer funded daycare centers. I don't want to hear how this will cause more crime etc...etc...., those wasting space in classes are already well on their way to a life of taking from others that with which they should provide for themselves...... so that arguement is pure BS from those that can't accept that some will fail in life and some will succeed. Teachers shouldn't have to justify their jobs every year based on test scores, but they also shouldn't be exempt from the risk of losing their job if they are a poor excuse for an educator. Principals do in class assements of each teacher throughout the school year and just like the head of a business if someone is not performing then they should not be bound by the constraints of tenure to keep them on the dole.

Simplicity is a key to fixing many issues!:yessir:

Right now in our area they have had their budget cut yet again. So teacher's assistants, teachers, counselors etc are being let go. How is this even a good idea? How is the system going to benefit those children now? How are the teachers going to have time to devote to these kids if they have to do the job of 3 people? On top of all that, they are putting some special needs children back into normal classrooms. WTF!!! So what is the teacher supposed to do with that, leave the special needs kid in the dust or go slow and not teach all the information the rest of the kids need. :dunno: Either way they're screwed..

I agree with a lot of what Kevin and Bill said but here in NY teachers are paid pretty good for their job. My fiance makes 42k/yr and only works 8.5 months a year after you take out summer vacation, winter recess, midwinter recess, spring break, snowdays all the federal holidays that most businesses dont give their employees off... all their vacation time. I am all for making the school year longer/year round with small breaks inbetween "years."

As far as the tests... there are far better ways to "grade" children on their progress than some stupid standardized test. I do not agree that is the best/only way to evalute a childs progress. Kids in school can make huge strides from where they were when they came in to where they are now and still not do well on a test.

One thing that reaaaallly bothers me is a lot of teachers put in the bare minimum of work. They are "required" to show up to school at 830... they can leave at 330. My fiance is at school around 7 and doesnt leave till 430. Granted she is in here first year as a full time teacher and has a lot of ground work to do but a lot of teachers arent willing to stay in the class when they arent required to. One thing that really bothers me is yea kids need breaks and days off and all that good stuff but why arent the teachers required to go into school on those days? You're telling me a teacher needs columbus day off? For what!!! You're telling me every teachers classroom is organized, prepared and ready to give kids good education day in and day out? There is ALWAYS something a teacher can do to improve our future generations education. Same with "staff development days"... why do the kids have a 1/2 day today so the teachers can do staff development this afternoon? That cant be done next week sometime while the kids are on spring break??

I am in no way hating on teachers... im marrying one in 29days:) ... but I do think the union is causing a lot of the issues our education system is going through right now... and SURPRISE unions are to blame for 95% of the job loss here in central new york!

I understand that teachers are grossly under paid and really have no motivation to stay up to date and when there really is no advancement opportunities. BUT it is the environment that was built for the teachers to live in. I don'y blame the teachers I blame the school boards and Gov't for making teachers live inside such strict guidelines. Basically all that is required of teachers is a certain curriculum of topics they are required to teach. They get no recognition of thinking outside the 'box' and teaching the kids more and better then they are required to. That also has a lot to do with the fact that most public school teachers are in a teachers union of some sort. And while unions guarantee you a fair wage and benefits it will also tie your hands and give little flexibility.

And slightly of topic but check this out: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100415/ap_on_re_us/us_rubber_rooms

I understand that teachers are grossly under paid and really have no motivation to stay up to date and when there really is no advancement opportunities. BUT it is the environment that was built for the teachers to live in. I don'y blame the teachers I blame the school boards and Gov't for making teachers live inside such strict guidelines. Basically all that is required of teachers is a certain curriculum of topics they are required to teach. They get no recognition of thinking outside the 'box' and teaching the kids more and better then they are required to. That also has a lot to do with the fact that most public school teachers are in a teachers union of some sort. And while unions guarantee you a fair wage and benefits it will also tie your hands and give little flexibility.

And slightly of topic but check this out: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100415/ap_on_re_us/us_rubber_rooms

My wife is a principal of an alternative school as most of you know and I can tell you, what is bolded up above is one of the BIGGEST problems with the schools now. I constantly hear about the jacked up teachers my wife has to deal with on a daily basis who care nothing about the kids and she cant get rid of them because of the union.
As for pay, I can tell you from living it that they are GROSSLY underpaid. My wife has a master's degree and about 6-8 certifications... anyone else with that much education would be making well over $100,000 a year.... well she aint!

When you guys say teachers are underpaid, what are the salaries in your areas? I know NY is a top state for education and any grads coming out of school looking for jobs usually have a tough time getting one in NY. Most end up either moving out of state for a job or get on the sub list and try to get their foot in the door somewhere. I know the NYS teachers union takes pretty good care of their teachers as far as pay and benefits. Hell my fiance made 35k being a full time building sub. 35k aint a ton but only working 8-9 months a year that aint too shabby. I know when I came out of college and worked in accounts payable for my company I made about 24k and I worked 12 months/yr.

I constantly hear about the jacked up teachers my wife has to deal with on a daily basis who care nothing about the kids and she cant get rid of them because of the union.

My fiance worked for the Syracuse City School district as a full time sub and I heard all about those lazy SOB teachers there. I give them credit for dealing with the city kids who most dont give a damn about school but like you said they could give 2 craps about the kids. If you're not there for the kids you need to get the hell out and find something else to do bc school is all about the kids.

No child will be left behind.....opppsss wrong president....if your going to go into hock over something...it should be the children....not a 11 percent increase in who's got health insurance....

So you're saying that if the kids do good the teachers get a raise? Thats not really fair because as a student sometimes on the day of a big test something huge in your family or are just having a bad day it can really mess you up... And also the ISAT and Terra Nova is one week of testing and is not a good way to analyze a student's preformance...

I home schooled my son last year for kindergarten. This year, he is in first grade in the public school system because of issues with my work schedule. Well, it's April, and about 75-80% of the material covered is still review for him.

The public school system is failing. I'm all for stripping tenure from every single teacher out there!!!!! I am equally in favor of substantially increasing salaries for teachers that can effectively teach our nation's youth. When I say "teach", I mean teach....not indoctrinate. Our youth needs to be taught facts, and how to think....not what to think.

Hey, can ya tell I'm just a little big on accountability? :dunno:

Matt are you talking to me or another poster ???

What i'm saying is that all the cuts to the teachers make the children suffer...I also DO NOT BELIEVE IN TENURE.....

So you're saying that if the kids do good the teachers get a raise? Thats not really fair because as a student sometimes on the day of a big test something huge in your family or are just having a bad day it can really mess you up... And also the ISAT and Terra Nova is one week of testing and is not a good way to analyze a student's preformance...

Well, that's just a perfect example as to why a teacher that can differentiate between a student having a bad day, and a student that is failing should get a raise, while a teacher that can't should get the ax!

Matt are you talking to me or another poster ???

What i'm saying is that all the cuts to the teachers make the children suffer...I also DO NOT BELIEVE IN TENURE.....

Cuts to the teachers do not make the children suffer. I just don't buy it. I think children suffer more due to teachers' unions using school budgets and the "poor little children" as bargaining chips.

I'll be back shortly....off to see how much money these unions who only care about the children spent on political contributions.

Matt are you talking to me or another poster ???

What i'm saying is that all the cuts to the teachers make the children suffer

No it was in general. And I totally agree with ya'll, because of budget cuts it is so dumb because there are some special needs kids that are totally failing because the teacher doesn't have time to help them because she's like butter spread over too much bread! And if you don't understand the material at my school you're just SOL... I would be so lost if it wasn't to the internet and my parents...

Check out #7 and #14.....I bet that money could and should have been better spent.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

Cuts to the teachers do not make the children suffer. I just don't buy it. I think children suffer more due to teachers' unions using school budgets and the "poor little children" as bargaining chips.

I'll be back shortly....off to see how much money these unions who only care about the children spent on political contributions.

I said nothing about unions...I meant cutting the good teachers out of the childrends lives in one way or another...

I agree with a lot of what Kevin and Bill said but here in NY teachers are paid pretty good for their job. My fiance makes 42k/yr and only works 8.5 months a year after you take out summer vacation, winter recess, midwinter recess, spring break, snowdays all the federal holidays that most businesses dont give their employees off... all their vacation time. I am all for making the school year longer/year round with small breaks inbetween "years."

As far as the tests... there are far better ways to "grade" children on their progress than some stupid standardized test. I do not agree that is the best/only way to evalute a childs progress. Kids in school can make huge strides from where they were when they came in to where they are now and still not do well on a test.

One thing that reaaaallly bothers me is a lot of teachers put in the bare minimum of work. They are "required" to show up to school at 830... they can leave at 330. My fiance is at school around 7 and doesnt leave till 430. Granted she is in here first year as a full time teacher and has a lot of ground work to do but a lot of teachers arent willing to stay in the class when they arent required to. One thing that really bothers me is yea kids need breaks and days off and all that good stuff but why arent the teachers required to go into school on those days? You're telling me a teacher needs columbus day off? For what!!! You're telling me every teachers classroom is organized, prepared and ready to give kids good education day in and day out? There is ALWAYS something a teacher can do to improve our future generations education. Same with "staff development days"... why do the kids have a 1/2 day today so the teachers can do staff development this afternoon? That cant be done next week sometime while the kids are on spring break??

I am in no way hating on teachers... im marrying one in 29days:) ... but I do think the union is causing a lot of the issues our education system is going through right now... and SURPRISE unions are to blame for 95% of the job loss here in central new york!

There is a huge difference in teaching in the south as compared to the northeast. The main one being the teachers unions are very weak here, or mabye it's just a southern thing 'cause our teachers here have a similar situation as Bill described.....I.E...... juggle the work of three people.

I said nothing about unions...I meant cutting the good teachers out of the childrends lives in one way or another...

Well, that's all you had to say, negro!!!! Sorry....don't know where the Pulp Fiction reference fits in. :dunno:

I agree that cutting good teachers out of the lives of children that need them is not the way to go. I believe in merit pay.....and merit firing of the inept!

What's disconcerting is the results I see in my line of work. As a body piercer, I see countless teens, and most are of below what I would consider average intelligence. I tell my clients that they need to wait 6-8 weeks before changing a new piercing. I can't even venture a guess at how many ask me how long that is, or how many have said, "So a month", or "How many weeks in a month?".

I have pierced women who have come in hungover (one had pierced her nose with a frat pin the night before), and were barely capable of filling out a basic release form or spelling the word "tounge" (their spelling, not mine). Imagine my dismay when I find out that they're school teachers! I'm not saying that this is the norm, but I think a lot of kids would benefit if these particular teachers were cut out of their lives. :cheers:

I honestly think this could be resolved primarily by caring parents speaking up. Give raises to the good teachers...the ones who challenge our kids and push them to succeed. Give the boot to those whose agenda is anything other than that!

I honestly think this could be resolved primarily by caring parents speaking up.

You're assuming the majority of parent out there actually care....:dunno:

You're assuming the majority of parent out there actually care....:dunno:

You're assuming they dont. :dunno:

You're assuming the majority of parent out there actually care....:dunno:

Lower class area schools get less funding, less community envolvement, which leads to hiring teachers that really aren't suitable to even teach a kid how to piss much less educate one. the problem is not only in the parenting, it's also in the schools system. there are good teachers"very few" these days and then theres teachers. a lot of teachers these days just really dont give a crap, i've seen teachers pass kids just to get them out of there class"for instance" my fiances nephew is 10 years of age and in the 4th grade, he just learned how to spell dog this year. is it his fathers faught? well.. his father works 16 to 18 hours a day to support him and his son, his school flys a banner stating achievement of excellence from the STATE of Ohio but he has made it to the 4th grade already and can't spell at all hardly. he can read but my 4 year old can read almost as well as he can. he's in school 7 hours a day and has passed 3 grades so far and he's illiterate.do you think the teachers have done there job or did agood job at educating this kid? should she/he get a raise or tenure? i think not. a teacher should be paid on her ability to educate a child.. not just because she/he showed up for work.