My little frog butt started doing this yesterday?? What on earth have I done wrong?? She is still alert and watching what goes on, but seems unable to really move around, other than this head shaking. She is staying very bright in color. I have her separated. She last pooped on Tuesday, and did not eat (to my knowledge) yesterday. This started half way thru the day. Am I a bad mommy?? Did I do something wrong and how do I fix it??

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/FloridaHogs/Beardied%20Dragons/th_100_4113.jpg (http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/FloridaHogs/Beardied%20Dragons/?action=view&current=100_4113.flv)

Wish I could help Jenea.....

My first thought was maybe an ear infection, but I really don't know Jenea. Sorry.

Nothing stuck in her mouth or throat is there?

Nothing stuck in her mouth or throat is there?
I do not see anything in her mouth.

Could she be stressed out? do these have any known neuro issues that you know of?

Could she be stressed out? do these have any known neuro issues that you know of?
:dunno: I am sure Jeremy would have told me, so i am guessing no

Could she be stressed out? do these have any known neuro issues that you know of?

No neuro issues at all.
What is she doing now Jenea?

:dunno: I am sure Jeremy would have told me, so i am guessing no

Would have been culled from the get go.

Nothing stuck in her mouth or throat is there?

That was my thought as well, looks like she's trying to shake something out. Also check her ears well and see if she's starting to shed, I have seen them shake their heads really hard when they have some shed starting around the head and they are trying to get that layer off the ear.

There was a woman on another forum that had this happening. What size crickets are you feeding the little guy? It turned out the crickets were to big. She downsized and gave a warm math to get stuff moving. She also changed over to wax worms. I haven't heard anything else so I guess all is well. This is what came to mind first. The shed thing sounds pretty good also. Either way you can't go wrong with warm baths and see what happens. Good luck and please reply this is excellent reference material.
Gary

Looked in her ears and nothing. She is staying her brightest colors. I thought they got bright when all was well??

She pooped the night before this started (cause she pooped on me) and has now gone a day and a half with no food....she is still observant, and watches me. Poor little baby....oh, and she is not on crickets Gary. Mostly greens with a few superworms every other day.

Going without food by her choice? Have you tried offering her favorite treats and see if there's any interest?

She is staying her brightest colors. I thought they got bright when all was well??

Or when they are pissed or just in a mood...seen them fire up for no reason I could find before...

The stool is normal, not runny? The loss of appetite seems odd...

Could the supers be too large? I know we feed mealies, wax and butter worms to our little guys. I am new at this also just throwing stuff out there to see if it stirs an idea.
Gary

what are your temps at?
what do you use to clean/disinfect cage?

what are your temps at?
what do you use to clean/disinfect cage?
She has not been exposed to any disinfectant....I only had her a week when this started and the other two are just fine.

Basking under MVB 105 to 110, cool side 75 to 80 (which is room temp).

Or when they are pissed or just in a mood...seen them fire up for no reason I could find before...

The stool is normal, not runny? The loss of appetite seems odd...
I do not think she "lost it" I just think she can not control the shaking to move around and eat. Whenever she tries to move the result is what you see in the vid.

Could the supers be too large? I know we feed mealies, wax and butter worms to our little guys. I am new at this also just throwing stuff out there to see if it stirs an idea.
Gary
I wondered that, but then I am picking up all the worm parts from where they are biting them into pieces. She is approx 6 months old, so not so tiny of a girl.

I do not think she "lost it" I just think she can not control the shaking to move around and eat. Whenever she tries to move the result is what you see in the vid.

i could be wrong but it sounds like some sort of nerve or neuro issue to me. it is possible that it's never shown or had the problem until now. kind of like the jag carpets.. some show the signs at hatching and others never show any signs until in juvie or adult hood stage.

Also, i know you and Jeremy both know a lot more than i do on beardies but i read this care sheet and it says never feed your beardie meal worms.

Bearded Dragon Care Sheet

Bearded dragons should be housed alone.


Ages of bearded dragons follow these guidelines:
1. 0-3 months- baby
2. 3-12 months-juvenile
3. 12-18 months- sub adult
4. 18 months + -adult

Bearded dragons live as much as 10-12 years if well cared for properly.
Bearded dragons have a very good temperament as long as they are cared for and handled.
When you bring your baby home, it may be quite stressful to him/her to get use to new home. May not eat well the first 2-3 days. They may not need to be handled the first 2-3 days if skittish and nervous.
Never use sand or any other type of loose substrate: Loose substrates can cause impaction (not being able to go Poop) in all ages of bearded dragons- they lick their environment to explore .It is difficult to keep germ free and clean. Ceramic tile, newspaper, non adhesive shelf liner and reptile carpet is what is most recommended. Use paper towels for the little one and as they get bigger you can change to something else.
Be sure you keep your beardies home as clean as you can. Clean up by spot cleaning when needed. Clean & sanitize entire tank every 10-14 days. A good cleaning solution is a 20% bleach solution. If you choose to use wood climbing branches etc, these should be soaked in the bleach solution and rinsed well. Then bake in 250 degree oven for 30 minutes.
Need a climbing accessory: to bask and to warm up under basking heat light and lower branches or platforms to come down and cool off.
A hide of some sort like a cave.
A food dish and water dish.
Plastic spray bottle
Can use artificial plants when they get older- 3 months or so.
Digital thermostat and/or temp gun
Tank size: Minimal size tank for this age is 20 gallon long
Minimal size for older beardie: 4 months of age: 40 gallon breeder is the minimal tank size for older dragon. Can divide a 40 gallon breeder for a smaller dragon. Must have two lights for your beardie.
1. A UVB light source-best XX XX.X Reptisun that runs the length of your tank. Your dragon must have this light to metabolize calcium. If not he will get metabolic bone disease, a serious condition. You can also take your beardie outside to bask in the sun for 15 minutes each day if your temps are 80 degrees or above outside. You can purchase cages or reptariums from your pet store. Never leave a beardie outside unattended.
2. A basking type light that puts out heat and warmth above basking spot. Your beardie must have warmth to digest food & thrive.

Lights should be on for 12-14 hours each day. Follow the seasons and light timers are a great luxury if you can get them. 6 dollars at Lowe's. No lights or warmth needed at night unless your temperatures get below 62 degrees. If they do, there are ceramic heat emitters that put out no light, only heat. Use these at night if temperatures fall below 62 degrees.


Temperatures have to be kept at the following ranges during the day:
Babies: Warm basking log: 105-125 degrees F
Cool side: 85-90
Adults: Warm basking spot: 110-115
Cool side: 80-85
Measure temperatures with a digital probe type thermometer or a temp gun-these are most accurate. Stick on thermometers unreliable.

Feeding a Beardie: Beardies eat live prey consisting of crickets, roaches and/or silkworms. Never feed any size of mice to your beardie. Never feed meal worms. They also must be given greens/veggies everyday. The younger they are the more live prey they should have. As they grow older the live prey decreases and the veggies/greens should be the major part of diet. Never feed anything bigger, than the space between your beardie's eyes. This includes both live prey and pieces of veggies/greens,
A chopper or food processor is a huge help when your beardie is small. Always offer greens and veggies: collard greens, turnip greens, mustard greens, cabbage, red cabbage, fresh green beans, yellow summer squash, butternut squash, sweet potato, cactus pad. Apricots, strawberries, apples, blueberries, raspberries, cantaloupe- fruits are treats only.
What is live prey? The easiest and less expensive live prey is crickets when you have a young or first beardie. The other live preys you can feed are silkworms, and special types of roaches. You can learn to raise your own live prey. Treats can be wax worms, super worms, and tomato/Goliath worms. You may find that ordering live prey from the internet is the way to go..... Never leave live prey or greens/veggies in tank overnight. . Crickets can bite your beardie when sleeping.
Babies should get 80% live prey, and 20 % greens/veggies. But since the greens/veggies are a must when they are older, get them eating their greens/veggies very early. Give greens/veggies in small pieces everyday. You should eventually start decreasing your older dragon's protein intake when they are about a year to 15 months old. Their protein intake decreases to 20 % live prey and 80% veggies/greens.
A baby the size of yours can eat 50-75 crix a day. Never feed crix or veggies bigger than the space between your beardie's eyes. Use this guide when buying crix or chopping your greens/veggies.
You must provide calcium dust without D3 and multivitamin dust for your beardie. You should dust the live prey with calcium one time a day, and vitamins 3 times a week. Just collect your live prey into baggie and add enough calcium and vitamin to dust them. Then pour a few at a time into your tank. Some people feed their beardie in a separate tank so that no crickets can hide. Or some take out "furniture" from tank and feed this way. As they get older, 4-5 months or so dust live prey with calcium 3 times a week.
Feed the veggies/ greens 1st thing in morning after lights on for one hour at least. Then after 2-3 hours offer crix. Then freshen green/veggies. Then give more crix. Make sure after last crix feeding there is at least 1-2 hours of lights so that they can digest their food before night time.
*Beardies over the age of one year old during the winter months will go into a Brumation like most Reptiles and Herps. It is a form of Hibernation that is governed by the weather and time of year. The lights should be on a shorter period at this time. Fresh greens should be available during this period. Do not feed live prey during Brumation.

Water: Mist your little one with the spray bottle 3-4 times a day. You can also offer a small dish of water in your enclosure but be sure your dragon is not too small to drown in it. It is recommended that when your beardie is 2 months old you can bathe your baby in a small plastic container with warm water- not hot. It will help them to stay hydrated. As they get older you can move up to the bathroom sink and then to the bathtub. Very important for bath enclosure to be thoroughly cleaned and rinsed prior to bath time. Clean between dragons too if bathing more than one.

If you have any further questions feel free to ask. I like to start people off with proper husbandry and then see if I can further assist. http://www.repticzone.com/articles/fruitsandvegetablesrated.html This is for fruits and Vegetables



http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html



Walnut shell Graphic: http://mrskingsbioweb.com/beardeddragngrossanatomy.htm



http://www.beardeddragon.org/articles/impaction/?page=3 calci sand



sexing bearded Dragons: http://repticzone.com/articles/sexingbeardeddragons.html



compact UVB problems: http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor-info.htm



Read more: http://www.justanswer.com/questions/2wqun-my-bearded-dragon-runs-around-and-his-head-is-shaking-violently#ixzz0nsCD7PTG

I have never seen any of mine do that type of behavior like the one in that video......I don't know about the whole not feeding meal worms thing....I fed mine meal worms when they were younger......Never had an issue once...You just have to watch the size of insects your feeding to them...The little guys can't process the amount of harder material from larger insects like the bigger dragons can....I feed all mine super worms and a heavy veggie diet now as they are larger...I used meal worms when they were younger in their diet as I could get them in a few different smaller sizes....much smaller sizes then the super worms...I fed a mixture of meal worms,crickets and veggies to them when they were babies....The housing them alone thing...I sorta disagree with as well....If you know what your doing and use some common sense as to sizes and sex ratio...it can be done and they can be housed together without problem....Dragons act so much happier when they are together IMO.....I keep mine in pairs year round and occasionally even rotate cage members so they get to see a different face every now and then :lol:

Well talked to tyhe people we rescued her from and they never had any problems.
Dont know if it was posted yet but some times larger food items can get lodged between the spine and stomach area.
I would definatly try soaking her a few times.

well I'd bump up the temps for that one & just keep eye on it.
warm soak, and just greens for a couple days- no more worms/crickets
then I'd put a repti sun 10.0 on him-
keep him away from other dragons
I bet your doing most of these already just trying to help sort out:rebel:

I've seen dragon do that but they tend to regurgitate right after shaking

I have never seen any of mine do that type of behavior like the one in that video......I don't know about the whole not feeding meal worms thing....I fed mine meal worms when they were younger......Never had an issue once...You just have to watch the size of insects your feeding to them...The little guys can't process the amount of harder material from larger insects like the bigger dragons can....I feed all mine super worms and a heavy veggie diet now as they are larger...I used meal worms when they were younger in their diet as I could get them in a few different smaller sizes....much smaller sizes then the super worms...I fed a mixture of meal worms,crickets and veggies to them when they were babies....The housing them alone thing...I sorta disagree with as well....If you know what your doing and use some common sense as to sizes and sex ratio...it can be done and they can be housed together without problem....Dragons act so much happier when they are together IMO.....I keep mine in pairs year round and occasionally even rotate cage members so they get to see a different face every now and then :lol:

I agree with you that is pretty much how we keep ours. I even have a trio doing very well together. Just no two males in one enclosure. For the adults we also feed horned worms as a treat. They love them. Good luck Jenea and please let us know what you find out.
Gary

I've fed mealworms for years without any problems. I also give my females fuzzies after egg laying when they look all skinny and sad... And keep em grouped. Wow, guess all these years I've been keeping them, feeding them, and breeding them wrong. Who'da thunk it...

They are generally a bullet proof animal, something is going on with that one....a million and one ways to keep them and have them thrive, tried plenty of different ways when I had them...

I would just do some daily soaks and boast the basking spot up to 115-120 personally (because of the extra soaks mainly), good luck Jenea and keep us posted :cheers:

Don't have any insight Jenea...but I hope she comes around for you....

That behavior would lead me to believe that there is some underlying neurological problem. Could have easily been caused by having been overheated or overcooked when incubating.

As touched on earlier a sever inner ear infection could cause a problem like this as well. Did you ever get it to a vet to get their opinion?

That behavior would lead me to believe that there is some underlying neurological problem. Could have easily been caused by having been overheated or overcooked when incubating.

As touched on earlier a sever inner ear infection could cause a problem like this as well. Did you ever get it to a vet to get their opinion?

Neuro problem that has just shown itself???

Just got home from ball games, and she has pooped again...still acting the same.

also got her to eat a few bites of greens...

I would say if she is pooping that prey size is definitely not the problem. This seems to be one of those freak things good luck.
Gary

Now Im just asking away...
Is it in a glass tank?
are the sides covered?
has it always been on newspaper for substrate?
is it missing it's tail?

I think if it were neurological, he'd spin when he walked, like in circles not shake head as if needed to dislodge or maybe he hears a hi pitch sound...:dunno:.?

how often does it do it in an hour?

Im reaching now but it's fun to try andfigure out

Now Im just asking away...
Is it in a glass tank?
are the sides covered?
has it always been on newspaper for substrate?
is it missing it's tail?

I think if it were neurological, he'd spin when he walked, like in circles not shake head as if needed to dislodge or maybe he hears a hi pitch sound...:dunno:.?

how often does it do it in an hour?

Im reaching now but it's fun to try andfigure out
No it has not been on newspaper.
A neuro problem would not just make it spin.

Dont know if you watched the video but there is no tail.
Glad its fun for you.Pretty sure Jenea and myself are somewhat worried about the little gal.

Oh poor little thing:( My first thought is that she had something stuck in her throat or at some point going to the stomach. She could have ate too much or something that was too big. Maybe a mealworm that was not chewed up enough and had gotten hold of her esophagus with it's jaws? It can happen if the beardie doesn't chew well. Frogs will do a head "shake/wiggle" when they have eaten their fill or too much. It's their way of actually trying to push the food items down further into the digestive tract. How is she now?

I really have no clue, but have a question about a question. What would having no tail do with it? I really hope you find what is wrong with the little guy. I can only imagine how frustrating. Good Luck.

I really have no clue, but have a question about a question. What would having no tail do with it?

Absolutely nothing.:dunno:

I really have no clue, but have a question about a question. What would having no tail do with it? I really hope you find what is wrong with the little guy. I can only imagine how frustrating. Good Luck.

I can't speak for the person that asked the question I'm guessing the connection was the fact that the spinal cord is part of the central nervous system. Which is directly connected to the brain. But I don't know that a spinal injury would cause neuro issues.

That is the part I don't get. Simple terms if the cord is broken only the stuff below it is what is affected. So why would a tail not make their head work? I am also concerned because I have a little guy with a bad tail nip and don't want to give them to someone if this is a common result. I really hope this problem is answered soon.
Gary

She ate a little on her own today, and seems to be improving a little.

Yesterday was the first day since this started, that I have noticed her able to really relax. Walked in this morning to see her totally conked out...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/FloridaHogs/Beardied%20Dragons/2010-05-18062040.jpg

Here motor functions seem to be improving. Controlling her head better, able to eat on her own in stead of being hand fed. Still not really walking around on her own, but there is improvement. I boosted her heat, been giving her warm soaks everyday and keeping at least a little food in her with an extra dusting of calcium and vitamins. Lots of TLC.

Jenea, that pic scared me. I thought I was gonna read that she'd died. You shouldn't do that to an old man so early in the morning. :eek:

Sorry Quig! :o....I am just so happy to see her relaxed, instead of all clinched up...

No it has not been on newspaper.
A neuro problem would not just make it spin.

Dont know if you watched the video but there is no tail.
Glad its fun for you.Pretty sure Jenea and myself are somewhat worried about the little gal.

Wow!!!!

Yes I watched it a few times....that's why I'm asking questions!

Easy killer I'm not getting my socks off by this, but I do love to fix stuff, and the more info I have the better suggestions I can give.

and you should know by now, working with animals sometimes it's out of our control, and it sucks no matter if a fish, lizard, cat, dog or even a monkey, when they suffer and you can't fix it.......but if possible, figure it out-and that's the fun part

So Tokay's unlimited you seem a lil touchy about this, sounds like you got all your bases covered

Wow!!!!

Yes I watched it a few times....that's why I'm asking questions!

Easy killer I'm not getting my socks off by this, but I do love to fix stuff, and the more info I have the better suggestions I can give.

and you should know by now, working with animals sometimes it's out of our control, and it sucks no matter if a fish, lizard, cat, dog or even a monkey, when they suffer and you can't fix it.......but if possible, figure it out-and that's the fun part

So Tokay's unlimited you seem a lil touchy about this, sounds like you got all your bases covered

Bases covered?????
Sorry man its just hard to tell exactly how people mean to say things over the computer.:yes:

There are unfortunatly people out there that find this stuff funny.I have seen it in the past.
Sick but true.

She is not 100%, but this is the best I have seen her since this whole ordeal started. A major improvement. Her movements are still awkward, but at least she is moving around now.
YouTube- video-2010-05-18-11-39-35

Great to hear Jenea, maybe it will pass in time, could just be a freak occurance.

She looks a lot better...hope she fully recovers :yessir:

Thanks Frank

That is the part I don't get. Simple terms if the cord is broken only the stuff below it is what is affected. So why would a tail not make their head work? I am also concerned because I have a little guy with a bad tail nip and don't want to give them to someone if this is a common result. I really hope this problem is answered soon.
Gary

I've never seen a tail nip (or tail gone) cause anything like this, I wouldn't worry about it.

Jenea, glad to see that she's doing better! I really think that she just got blocked up with something, and as her body is breaking it down it's resolving itself. Could be why she was shaking in the first place, trying to dislodge it, and since she didn't throw it up she has to let her body digest it in it's own time. BUT, that's just my opinion, and could be 100% wrong.

She has pooped regularly since it started. I am more inclined to think it is inner ear or something like that. Her balance seems really off, and she is very awkward. Up until today, she was not moving around at all, except for the head shaking. Here is a vid to give you a better idea of her movements

YouTube- video-2010-05-18-14-13-29

Geeze, that's just strange... There's so many could be this or that or who knows that I am just glad that she does look better then she did!

Okay, random sounding question, had you fed her asparagus??

Nope, just greens daily. a treat of strawberries once a week, and super worms every other day (until they are gone.)

I've been watching this thread- I have no valuable info to add (sorry).... I have a *special beardie* as well -- everything from his hind legs back is useless. His back legs are folded up over his tail and I've never seen him shake his head or wobble around like your girl...

I'm glad she is doing better and I hope she continues to improve!

~Beth

Thanks Beth...she is eating like a pig today! Moving around even better than yesterday....have no idea what happened, just glad she seems to be pulling out of it.

She is really wanting to get back in the tank with the others. Even doing the beardie wave to them....it is so sweet.

So is all back to normal?
Gary

All is back to normal. No idea what happened,but she is in good form now.

Good to hear! It's still really weird though.

Glad things are back to normal Jenea. :yes:

Glad to hear Jenea. :)

In that case I really think that she managed to get something stuck in her throat that she couldn't get to dislodge, and it just took awhile for it to break down. Once it did then she's fine again... Must have been too far down in the throat to be able to see it would be my guess. Of course I could be a hundred percent wrong about that, but in any case I am very happy that she's back to normal!!