Reading this board for the past few weeks it seem the two most hated types of sellers are "Flippers" and "Crashers".


But wouldn't buying a snake that's well under market value turning it and selling it at or near market value help the domino effect from happening?


*Please note, I've never "flipped" or "crashed". Just trying to think outside the box.

Reading this board for the past few weeks it seem the two most hated types of sellers are "Flippers" and "Crashers".


But wouldn't buying a snake that's well under market value turning it and selling it at or near market value help the domino effect from happening?


*Please note, I've never "flipped" or "crashed". Just trying to think outside the box.

If it is done correctly, yes. If it is done the way most "flippers" (in the sense we use it here as being someone who buys an animal and immediately sells it, not taking the time to ensure the animal is healthy, free of vermin, and eating) do it, it does nothing more than cause more problems in the industry/hobby. Flippers and market crashers are the scum of this industry plain and simple. They do nothing but drive down the value of animals and cause people to lose entire collections due to disease.

If it is done correctly, yes.

which in essence means that they're not "flippers" anymore.
at that point, the practitioner becomes a re-seller.
ck

which in essence means that they're not "flippers" anymore.
at that point, the practitioner becomes a re-seller.
ck
:yes::cheers::rockon:

Reading this board for the past few weeks it seem the two most hated types of sellers are "Flippers" and "Crashers".


But wouldn't buying a snake that's well under market value turning it and selling it at or near market value help the domino effect from happening?


*Please note, I've never "flipped" or "crashed". Just trying to think outside the box.

If you buy it at well below market value your just keeping that flipper in business and keeping the practice alive.... a lot of the time flippers are market crashers.

I recently bought a pair of Jungle Jags to re-sell. When I saw the ad, thought the asking price was very low. I sent an e-mail asking how firm the seller was, and letting him know that I could only lay out the cash for a killer deal. I was respectful, and professional.

The seller blew up on me, but took an additional $100 off a price that was already below market value. He shipped them to me, and they look great, and have been in quarantine for about a month now....they will be going back up on the market at full market price shortly.

I feel it's our responsibility to put our money where our mouths are. There are some people out there that will whine and complain about prices being too low, but do nothing about it. There are people out there who will complain about flippers, but do nothing about it. In this situation, I was able to get a couple animals for wholesale prices, which I can responsibly re-sell. This helps (even in a small way) alleviate both areas of concern.

I recently bought a pair of Jungle Jags to re-sell. When I saw the ad, thought the asking price was very low. I sent an e-mail asking how firm the seller was, and letting him know that I could only lay out the cash for a killer deal. I was respectful, and professional.

The seller blew up on me, but took an additional $100 off a price that was already below market value. He shipped them to me, and they look great, and have been in quarantine for about a month now....they will be going back up on the market at full market price shortly.

I feel it's our responsibility to put our money where our mouths are. There are some people out there that will whine and complain about prices being too low, but do nothing about it. There are people out there who will complain about flippers, but do nothing about it. In this situation, I was able to get a couple animals for wholesale prices, which I can responsibly re-sell. This helps (even in a small way) alleviate both areas of concern.

...and thus you protect the value of countless other JJ's on the market.
knowing you, and what you stand for bro, i know that no animal will leave your hands unless it's honestly represented and in perfect health.
ck

...and thus you protect the value of countless other JJ's on the market.
knowing you, and what you stand for bro, i know that no animal will leave your hands unless it's honestly represented and in perfect health.
ck

:yessir: You know it, brotha!!

I've seen the odd opportunity to make a few bucks from someone who was desperate to make a sale, but I just feel better about selling the animals I produce and know the condition of 100%. I am too afraid of ruining everthing I worked for reputation-wise to sell an inferior animal (even by accident).
I'm sure that as my collection evolves, and my holdbacks become my breeders, I will undoubtedly sell animals that I originally purchased from someone else. But that will only be after they have spent years in my care and I am still confident in their quality.

When I first got into the hobby I bought some snakes at a killer price, turned around and re-sold them after a 60 day qt and a vet trip and didn't feel bad about it in the least. I also didn't lie as most flippers do and claim I had anything to do with producing the animal. I don't really do it anymore, but not so much due to having something against it as the fact that I have my hands full with my own ball pythons, leos, and cresties that I'm breeding. Not to mention the fact I have two little kids, and numerous other pet reptiles. It's just not worth the time/effort for minimal profit. That being said, if I saw a an animal or two at WELL below market value, perhaps on craigslist or such. I would probably grab them up, qt and vet them. Also another thing for re-sellers to take into mind is if they have anything in QT already. As I learned before, if you have items in QT and you bring in a new QT animal, besides now having to keep your other animals in QT longer. You run the risk of exposing them to whatever the new animal may have.

So a place like lllreptile or ben siegel who both advertise they will buy your clutches, are they flippers?

If so I would say they is a place in the hobby for them. If a person enjoys keeping and breeding reptiles, but doesn't have the time or desire to build a web site or work reptile shows. Does that mean they shouldn't breed because they wouldn't be following the "rules"?

*again no offense intended, just putting it out there.

So a place like lllreptile or ben siegel who both advertise they will buy your clutches, are they flippers?

If so I would say they is a place in the hobby for them. If a person enjoys keeping and breeding reptiles, but doesn't have the time or desire to build a web site or work reptile shows. Does that mean they shouldn't breed because they wouldn't be following the "rules"?

*again no offense intended, just putting it out there.

Short answer no, long answer read on...lol

Places like LLL at least I look at like a store (besides the given storefront they have), a store that has their reach into the reptile community unlike your normal pet store so they can reach out like that...It is no different to me then the people that take their extra snakes to the local pet store and sell them to them...Ben I know nothing about really so I can't even comment...

I don't care who sells wholesale, buys wholesale as long as it is done correctly and not to the general public because then those lines can get blurred on pricing because most people don't comprehend that there is a difference.

Someone like me who works 40+ hours a week with no computer access, kids who have every imaginable extra curricular activity, house to take care of, etc...is not really inclined to do shows on the weekends (that I need to be tending to the collection) or sell anything online (I don't want to spend the entire night answering emails after work) personally needs and wants to have an outlet for healthy feeding animals that I just don't have locally like some do with their pet stores but in the past I have found that these guys don't want your normals or your few single gene extras normally, they want 10-20 lots of stuff...:dunno:

I just don't produce like that....which is why I give ALOT of stuff away through out the year...now if they really did want your clutch of 3 morphs and 5 normals then I say more power to them as long as they are not flashing wholesale price lists to the entire public...

I maybe the odd one out in my thinking but it is what it is...

How about you do a search on flipper threads that have been already posted MANY times already, I really hate explaining the same crap over and over again with regards to flippers.

So a place like lllreptile or ben siegel who both advertise they will buy your clutches, are they flippers?

If so I would say they is a place in the hobby for them. If a person enjoys keeping and breeding reptiles, but doesn't have the time or desire to build a web site or work reptile shows. Does that mean they shouldn't breed because they wouldn't be following the "rules"?

*again no offense intended, just putting it out there.

Ok I wasn't going to open my trap till that magic "lll" word came up.
A few years ago, a friend of mine was just getting into geckos and things, didn't want anything expensive and I had heard good things about lll... They ordered 2 tokay geckos from them and arranged to have me pick them up at the NARBC show in Arlington a week after they ordered.
I get to the show, and I checked in with them and said who I was and that i was there to pick them up. After lots of walking around and talking to each other someone "in charge" comes to tell me they sold the flipping geckos to someone else AT THE SHOW!!
I said, ok.. these were already paid for and showed my receipt, I stood there for a good 2 hours and watched them discuss this between themselves. They said they would make it right and to come back in an hour when the person "more in charge" was there.
I come back... they had bought 2 geckos from a booth a few tables away.

One died on the 5 hour drive home. I bought 13 animals at that show and ONE died. They said it was my fault it had died and that I must have left it in the sun or something and killed it. (b/c I'm a complete jackass and don't know any better... and none of the other animals were affected)

After much arguing I apparently said the magic words and asked if the geckos they bought to replace the CB ones that had been paid for were also CB. A few phone calls later, find out they are imports. I said I would gladly turn my car around and bring the live gecko and the corpse back to them and they could pay to ship me 2 CB geckos when they got back to the shop. They said they didn't have any and it would be quite some time before they did. I asked for a refund, they said no to both. They would not pay to ship them, and would not give a refund. (back to it being my fault the one died)

Took the one living one to the vet, and $100 later, the $10 lizard is $110 lizard.
We arranged to pick them up to save the $50 on shipping and b/c they wanted a quick business deal with a random walk-up person at the show, we ended up with a mess.

I'm sure I'll get ripped in 2 for this but I do NOT agree with that type of biz practice. What they did is EXACTLY what the previous posters has listed as "flippers" (no QT, buying and quickly re-selling, ETC).
Granted, this is just one experience, and it was several years ago before I knew how to look animals over and ask the right questions before taking an animal and part of this is my problem b/c had I asked at the show if they were the CB animals that were paid for online, and I was told then that they were not, I would never have taken them.

Flame away

~Beth

How about you do a search on flipper threads that have been already posted MANY times already, I really hate explaining the same crap over and over again with regards to flippers.

Not to be out of line but this is an active topic that people are participating in, if people feel its worth responding too then I don't see what the problem is?

In the 'Ball Python Basics' sub-forum there are only four threads that have responses in the last week. So if this topic is sparking an intelligent debate in an otherwise slow sub-forum I don't see how you feel its not entirely relevant and worth being here.

:yessir:

Not to be out of line but this is an active topic that people are participating in, if people feel its worth responding too then I don't see what the problem is?

In the 'Ball Python Basics' sub-forum there are only four threads that have responses in the last week. So if this topic is sparking an intelligent debate in an otherwise slow sub-forum I don't see how you feel its not entirely relevant and worth being here.

:yessir:

It's just another "why shouldn't we support flippers" thread. So we should talk about everything we talked about yesterday just because you think the sub-forum is slow? Why not go back and add to the threads that have already been started? Why not read what has been already posted? Why do we need another thread about the same topic. Why should we rehash this over and over? How about we talk about something new?

I honestly don't want to get in a back and forth thing, if you feel this is a rerun thread I would be more than fine with it being deleted.

I am by no means a "flipper supporter" or "pro-crashing". But I was somewhat confused that people were against selling low on and open market and at the same time being against someone that "middles" reptiles from breeders to buyers.

Would I be in favor of someone selling sick snakes to unsuspecting buyers? Of course not! Do I feel people that sell sick reptiles should be exposed on forums like this? Absolutely!

My question basically was:
What is the acceptable outlet for a person that produces offspring but not the ability to market themselves?

I'll add this. Beth, not gonna rip ya, but I do really hope you were very new to the whole reptile thing if you thought that a 10 dollar TOKAY was cb!! Sorry, just had to say it. :cheers:
(We sell tokays. They are wild caught. Never would I claim them to be anything else. First thing I do when I unpack them before they even go into a PAM'd cage is a shot of D-worm. They then get 3 more doses, 1 per week, and have to be putting weight on and eating well, no bugs, etc before they are ever put on the floor for sale. Meds, fecals (which I do myself) and a month minimum before they are sold means I am selling them for more then 10 bucks! And they are still clearly stated wild caught) IMO that means I am not flipping, I am reselling. Reselling a healthy animal that has been cared for, not unpacking it and instantly selling it, which is flipping.

I'll add this. Beth, not gonna rip ya, but I do really hope you were very new to the whole reptile thing if you thought that a 10 dollar TOKAY was cb!! Sorry, just had to say it. :cheers:
(We sell tokays. They are wild caught. Never would I claim them to be anything else. First thing I do when I unpack them before they even go into a PAM'd cage is a shot of D-worm. They then get 3 more doses, 1 per week, and have to be putting weight on and eating well, no bugs, etc before they are ever put on the floor for sale. Meds, fecals (which I do myself) and a month minimum before they are sold means I am selling them for more then 10 bucks! And they are still clearly stated wild caught) IMO that means I am not flipping, I am reselling. Reselling a healthy animal that has been cared for, not unpacking it and instantly selling it, which is flipping.

haha.. yes I was very new and I wasn't the one that bought them... I just picked them up but they were labeled on the site as CB......

My issue was that they had sold something that was already sold and then replaced it with an animal that was not one of theirs and refused to come through on their guarantee. They technically flipped the replacement geckos and then the one died....
Ages ago and a little common sense would have gone a long way on getting them but now I know better.

~Beth