So milkheads :p I have a question for you. Two anery hondos are bred. Half the babies look like normal anerys, the other half look ghostish, but not like my ghost. Is there such a thing as an anery ghost? Here are some pics of two of the babies, cause the "ghost" just does not look like my other ghost....wow think I confused myself there....

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/FloridaHogs/Kingsnakes%20and%20Milksnakes/100_4688b.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/FloridaHogs/Kingsnakes%20and%20Milksnakes/100_4684b.jpg

and the other ghost I am comparing them to
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/FloridaHogs/Kingsnakes%20and%20Milksnakes/991e63c0.jpg

Well, there ARE a fair number of really nice, clean straight up anery's that are produced by folks. And there are many average/mediocre to even very dark tipped-up ghosts that are produced in the market as well.

I have an old anery male that looks better than many adult ghosts do to be quite honest. Now looking at that pic, I would honestly say that really looks to be an average looking ghost actually. I can see the dark pigment in the rings is substantially lighter(brownish) than your known anery beside it, and the RBR(red body rings) are lighter as well, even though it has some fair tipping in the middle white rings.

That ghost you have a pic of is very outstanding, and all ghosts do not look that nice and clean. That is just a very exceptional one, so congrats on that beauty!.

Here is what I am thinking...........Are you absolutely SURE that your anery's that produced that clutch are not both het for hypo??. Because that would certainly explain why that one is so much lighter and looks like an average ghost to me.

I have produced some VERY light ghosts, and some very dark average ghosts from the same clutch as well. Some just look far better than others. Some you can barely see the hypo trait involved , while other individuals it is like they were dipped in bleach..LOL!

Again, that ONE ghost is EXTREMELY nice, while that other one could indeed be a ghost if the parents were both het for hypomelanism. Rarely do you ever see anery's that light, regardless of the scale tipping.

Most average adult ghosts are tipped up big-time!, it just takes a bit longer.


~Doug

The parents were received as just anery hondos, until that clutch hatched out. So does this mean they are Anery het hypo or anery het ghost or what?? All these new genetics to figure out....

Those are cool Jenea! :) Whatever they are!

I would go with the parents being het hypo also...congrats they look good now you just have to prove them out!

Those are neat little guys... good luck on solving your mystery..

~Beth

Sweet looking hondos whatever they may be! Always loved the anery and ghost milks :D

The parents were received as just anery hondos, until that clutch hatched out. So does this mean they are Anery het hypo or anery het ghost or what?? All these new genetics to figure out....

Yes, Honduran morphs have become much more affordable over the recent years, and they are almost like cornsnakes anymore in regards to most all of them being het for other traits. Many are indeed het for unknown traits too, just like corns are. It is almost impossible to find Hondurans that are not het for at least one other trait, if not more now days. And it is VERY common to see anerythristic hondos that are het for hypo and other traits going for about the same price as a straight up anery would, especially if the seller is not aware of it being het to begin with.

From what I see there, that looks to be a ghost, and I would bet a dollar to a donut both the anery parents are het for hypo.

BTW, there is alot of misused terminology regarding genetics as you well know, and an anery really isn't het for "ghost" per se, but put more acurately, it would be....anery, het for hypo(ghost), since anery is already half of the ghost equation. But many still use the term interchangeably nonetheless.

Just like a cornsnake might be labeled amel, het "snow", it is actually an amel, het anery(snow)..LOL! It equates to the same thing, but when the traits are termed individually, it is usually simpler for most to understand this way is all...LOL!

BTW, if the two parents were bought at the same time from the buyer, that would make this all even that much MORE probable and likely they are both het hypo!




regards, ~Doug

Well looks like Doug already straightened this one out before I got here! Nice looking hondos Jenea! :cheers:

Doug, this was a breeder pair I got from Home Grown Herps when we acquired their colubrid collection. I believe this was the first clutch laid by the pair, and the clutch hatched just days before we picked them up. Jim and Anna were very surprised. The pair originated from John Schmidt, but I have not heard of him so I do not know if that helps.


So, would it be possible to produce a hypo from this pair since they are both het? Or just ghost?

So, would it be possible to produce a hypo from this pair since they are both het? Or just ghost?

with colubrids unlike with bps you have to have both to make a ghost, hypo and anery in colubrids and just a form of hypo in bps...

so you already have the anery, if they are also hypo it makes them a ghost by definition in the colubrid world...I'm sure with the numbers you could hit on just a hypo eventually but very unlikely

If you could get ahold of a hypo hondo (if there is such and animal) you could prove them out by making some hypo het anery...

Doug, this was a breeder pair I got from Home Grown Herps when we acquired their colubrid collection. I believe this was the first clutch laid by the pair, and the clutch hatched just days before we picked them up. Jim and Anna were very surprised. The pair originated from John Schmidt, but I have not heard of him so I do not know if that helps.


So, would it be possible to produce a hypo from this pair since they are both het? Or just ghost?

If both parents are anerys, your only possibility is anerys and if both parents are het hypo, ghosts. There is no way you could produce just a plain hypo from this pairing since parents are anery. Hope this helps!

If both parents are anerys, your only possibility is anerys and if both parents are het hypo, ghosts. There is no way you could produce just a plain hypo from this pairing since parents are anery. Hope this helps!

Correct Ron!,...since both parents are already homozygous for anery, there is no way of producing a snake that is only expressing the hypo trait....period!, they will ALL express the anery gene no matter what.

As you mentioned, the offspring would automatically be expressing anery right off the bat, and the only other additional possibility would be some would also be ghost, and anery, het hypo(ghost).

What he should do is simply breed these light ones to his KNOWN ghost youngster later when it matures, then if the offspring are all ghosts(not any anery's)...BINGO!, they are then proved-out. Or simply breed one to a KNOWN straight-up hypo(not carrying the recessive hypo gene), then if even ONE single hypo is produced, you then immediately proved the light one(s) are indeed ghosts.

I have some extremehypos and ultra-light hypos that are not het for anything whatsoever, and these would be perfect for that test breeding too, not to mention they are some of THE nicest available anywhere in the country.

BTW, I am very familiar with Jim of "Home Grown Herps", as well as John Schmidt, and they are both good people. John Schmidt is VERY heavy into Pituophis, and another buddy of mine is always bringing his name up in conversations.

Anyway, you can easily prove those out 100% a couple different ways as described above.


~Doug

Correct Ron!,...since both parents are already homozygous for anery, there is no way of producing a snake that is only expressing the hypo trait....period!, they will ALL express the anery gene no matter what.

As you mentioned, the offspring would automatically be expressing anery right off the bat, and the only other additional possibility would be some would also be ghost, and anery, het hypo(ghost).

What he should do is simply breed these light ones to his KNOWN ghost youngster later when it matures, then if the offspring are all ghosts(not any anery's)...BINGO!, they are then proved-out. Or simply breed one to a KNOWN straight-up hypo(not carrying the recessive hypo gene), then if even ONE single hypo is produced, you then immediately proved the light one(s) are indeed ghosts.

I have some extremehypos and ultra-light hypos that are not het for anything whatsoever, and these would be perfect for that test breeding too, not to mention they are some of THE nicest available anywhere in the country.

BTW, I am very familiar with Jim of "Home Grown Herps", as well as John Schmidt, and they are both good people. John Schmidt is VERY heavy into Pituophis, and another buddy of mine is always bringing his name up in conversations.

Anyway, you can easily prove those out 100% a couple different ways as described above.


~Doug
I know both Jim and John as well... John has some of the most KILLER stillwater hypos bulls I have ever seen! And yes, both guys are top notch in my book! :cheers:

I know both Jim and John as well... John has some of the most KILLER stillwater hypos bulls I have ever seen! And yes, both guys are top notch in my book! :cheers:

Right on Ron!........

A good friend of mine just bought a super nice Stillwater hypo from John Meltzer, and I think he bought a nice het albino Hog from John Schmitt as well at Daytona. He is indeed a "Pit" freak for sure!..LOL! He said he also got a smoker "jani" from Randy Whittington there too.

I held the Stillwater hypo he got in the deli cup at the show, and it was a real contrasting gem of a bullsnake!


~Doug

Stillwater golden hypos you say :) One of the breeders I received from Jim...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/FloridaHogs/Bulls%20%20%20Pines%20%20Gophers/100_4696.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/FloridaHogs/Bulls%20%20%20Pines%20%20Gophers/100_4693.jpg

Wow!,..that's a real looker there!

I just told a buddy of mine about this forum earlier today and gave him the link to this site. He has a lot of nice "pits" too, so hopefully he will start posting some stuff here soon.

Yes, that is a real sweet Stillwater there!


~Doug

Stillwater golden hypos you say :) One of the breeders I received from Jim...

Jenea you better keep that girl locked up! She is a smoker!!! :cheers:

Wow!,..that's a real looker there!

I just told a buddy of mine about this forum earlier today and gave him the link to this site. He has a lot of nice "pits" too, so hopefully he will start posting some stuff here soon.

Yes, that is a real sweet Stillwater there!


~Doug

Yeah man! Hope some more pit lovers join up. Love seeing these guys! :cheers:

Wow!,..that's a real looker there!

I just told a buddy of mine about this forum earlier today and gave him the link to this site. He has a lot of nice "pits" too, so hopefully he will start posting some stuff here soon.

Yes, that is a real sweet Stillwater there!


~Doug
:D Thanks! I have 2 breeding pairs of those guys! :yessir:

Jenea you better keep that girl locked up! She is a smoker!!! :cheers:



Yeah man! Hope some more pit lovers join up. Love seeing these guys! :cheers:
And HE is staying at my house :D