Don't even try to compare what I have listed to what Josh lists. I don't care if his prices are lower. You cannot compare my price for a 3 year old adult to his baby prices. Go ahead, buy 2 of his babies instead of my adult and see how that turns out. Looks like people see only the lower price. Personally, I would pay more to buy from someone with a better rep and better quality and customer service than Outback.
OK. Done with my rant now.

I would pay more to buy from someone with a better rep and better quality and customer service than Outback.


Agreed. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who won't learn this lesson until after they have their bargain purchase drop dead on them, or cost them far more than a quality animal would have in vet bills.

:dunno:

Did someone compare you to Josh or something?

Used Josh as an example of what could be bought.
I replied back good luck with a purchase from them and then he flipped out on me.

Used Josh as an example of what could be bought.
I replied back good luck with a purchase from them and then he flipped out on me.

Anyone we know or just a random Joe Public?

sent you a pm

Don't even try to compare what I have listed to what Josh lists. I don't care if his prices are lower. You cannot compare my price for a 3 year old adult to his baby prices. Go ahead, buy 2 of his babies instead of my adult and see how that turns out. Looks like people see only the lower price. Personally, I would pay more to buy from someone with a better rep and better quality and customer service than Outback.
OK. Done with my rant now.

Seems like we are just getting bits n pieces.... Let's hear the whole story then.

So you didn't make a sale cuz someone just wanted a cheap snake... that has to happen a thousand times a day.

/thread

Seems like we are just getting bits n pieces.... Let's hear the whole story then.

Yup, let it out!

Although I will also agree, we hear all the time that they can get it cheaper elsewhere, we tell em to go.

No. I made the sale then it fell apart. Crazy buyer.
Went off the deep end on me.

No. I made the sale then it fell apart. Crazy buyer.
Went off the deep end on me.

Let's hear what happened... looks like I'm not the only one who wants to hear what went down. :cheers:

you opened the door now you want to close it with no details...

No. I made the sale then it fell apart. Crazy buyer.
Went off the deep end on me.

yea we have all had that happen. Be glad he didn't get it, and claim it died or would not eat for him.
That is my favorite. Was eating fine and then it won't, and the guy says he has tried everything.

Oh cool, a rant with no explanation.

Rather than take the time to educate an ill/un informed buyer what value you hold over buying from outback and create a loyal customer, you go ahead and take it personal. I'm sure that's the last time it happens to you.
;)

Sorry, that didn't come off right. Not intending to goad you.

You have to realize you're going to get this type thing often. You can't come off sounding like Steve Jobs everytime someone tries to price shop you. There's plenty of stuff about Outback around, direct them to it. Explain the value of your animals (really YOU) to them, explain everything that goes into producing it. If they don't see it and just want a price, then direct them to theirs and the vet bills that come with it, and kindly invite them back when they've battled mites and whatelse and THEN they'll understand true value.

In a nutshell.

I sold the marble short tail which was confirmed as female to a guy. He probed it as male and said he didn't want it.

I offered to refund $50 for the sex difference (even though I know it was a female and he paid less than the asking price) or take it back for a full refund.

He replied with this.
I thought about it and since we can come to an agreement, I will send you the snake back as soon as you send me the shipping label.
My reasoning? I am not breeding Bloods this year,,, all the adult females that I have coming will be on schedule next year. I am only purchasing juvenile to hatchlings males that I know can be up to breeding size in 12-18 months. It saves me lots of money... at $300 and even $250 I can get 2 males. I hope you can understand what I am trying to do.
If you send me the label today, the snake will go out tomorrow in the same container that you sent it. If not it will have to wait 'till Monday next week.

I replied with this.
I will send you the label tonight but your math is off, you will not be able to get 2 male marble morphs for $250 to $300.

He then sent me an ad from Outback for baby marbles for $125 plus shipping. Now granted he got a 3 year old adult from me which I still say is a female and not a baby.

I answered with this.
Outback....Too funny.
Check their reputation. Good luck if you want to take a chance with Josh.
Way too many burnt people.
Check the BOI, Bush League Breeders, etc. They all have warnings about Josh and Outback.

He then sends this to me. I guess questioning his probing skills and giving him a heads up on Josh set him off.
Look,,, I am a 42 year old man that just retired with 22 years of service as an Army Special Forces Operator, not some little punk that wants to start a feud or send stabbing little e-mails back and forth because I am not getting my way.... or involve people that are not even involved in the situation or present to speak for themselves.
I was very respectful and king and if all of your replies there is either a smart remark or a doubtful assumption,,, so here is my last e-mail. Keep the $300 cause you seem to need them I don't,,, i will keep the snake not cause it is a female but because I don't want to deal with you anymore.... You are obviously insulted or butthurt over something that it is a very common mishap in the reptile business, but I guess it could never happen to you hugh?
I am so ############## pissed right now you better believe it is not good for you to call or e-mail me EVER again, keep the money I will keep the snake.... DO NOT REPLY

holy crap.... that is a bit of a deep end thing.... I can see why he would think you were picking a fight or whatever with him.... I almost hope he gets burned by outback so he can go "well damn" all to himself....

~Beth

Steve I understand your frustration but you did come off a bit insulting. Take it as a lesson learned. i have learned if I'm going to fix a customer problem I bite my tongue and fix it. If I don't and they never come back then what was the point in fixing it anyways?

Steve,
I dont think that you came off as insulting. It sounds to me as if army man is the "butthurt" (lol) one. I say keep your end of the bargin and send him his label. You can kiss his ass a little if you want and try to sooth his feelings.

I don't know, the emails to me seem very mild and really the only thing that I see is he was pretty shitty to send you someone elses add when he got buyers remorse.

Good luck with him man!

Steve....I think you came off as somewhat insulting, too. Of course the guy overreacted, but there are better ways of informing someone of bad sellers without being condescending.

I don't think I was condescending. Here is the exchange. His is in yellow. Some odd requests that I think he got mad about when I didn't want to do it.

Hi
How much does she weigh?
Is she guarantee to be a female?
300 shipped?
About 7 or 8 pounds. Sex guarenteed. $300 shipped if paid in full via paypal
I agreed to the lower price.
Hey Steve sounds good... A few things, could you please send me a pic of her? nothing personal I do it with everyone I purchase from for authentication purposes. And a contact number...
I will submit the payment today pending the photo and a solid contact number, if you don't mind. Thanks again
I supplied a photo with a paper in it showing the date and a contact number.
I've sent you the Paypal, below is the shipping info
Got it. Thanks.
I have some things going out Wednesday for Thursday delivery.
Would you be able to sign for her this Thursday morning or would you prefer another day?
Let me know.
Thursday is fine Steve, thanks... I'll be here all day, I love being retired.... If using UPS the normally deliver by 9:00 am. Thanks again!
Lucky. I still have a few more years to go.
I use Fed Ex. Should be there no later than 10:30am.
This girl is one of the best tempered short tails I have ever seen.
Here is a photo of her when she was only a week old.
Thanks for the pic its amazing how their colors change as they grow. I look forward to receiving her. I am not too savvy on Bloods but she will be looked after very well. The bulk of my collection are ball pythons (60+) but in looking to expand I've purchased a few bloods recently and they are super fun to keep. I've always wanted to keep reptiles full time but I was unable to do it before because I was gone all the time while in the military, now that I am home and momma is working on her retirement form the Air Force I have nothing but time.
It has been good doing business with you I'll be on the look out for the shipment notice on Wednesday, thanks a bunch
I then sent him his tracking info.
He called me when the snake arrived and said he probed it and it was a male. I said I would talk to the person who verified it by probing and popping as a female like I did.
Then I got this email.
Steve
Were you able to find anything out? I probed the snake again and it went pretty deep again on both sides... I've attached a photo of the size probe that I am using to give you an idea.
Please let me know...
Still waiting for them to get back to me.
There was no damage to the cloaca was there? Both myself and Harald from KBI got nowhere near that depth.
I will send you a pdf file of a prepaid shipping label to send the animal back.
Steve
I like the animal, but I also want to make sure that its a female. Earlier, I mentioned to you that I would hate to make a decision from a knee jerk reaction. I do not doubt that you and your friend sexed her and felt it was a female. I have absolutely have no reason to question your integrity and I hope you feel the same way about what I am telling you. I simply want to make sure that she is a female now that I probed her as a "male",,, you know that this stuff happens all the time, it has happened to me more than I care to remember even with some serious purchases of adult ball python morphs... please do not be offended. I do however want to make sure that we are in the same sheet and for now raise the awareness.
This is what I suggest,,, I have nothing but time if you agree to the let me do some more research and take her to people that know more about bloods than I do, but this make take me a couple weeks since next week I have a trip to San Antonio, TX for 5 days to watch my son graduate from his Air Force Basic Training. Until then she can be kept in my quarantine room away from any possible harm, warm, water and fed... Once I can get her sexed by "professionals" we can then make a decision. All this subject to your agreement...
BTW there is no damage to the cloaca?
Your thoughts, thanks
Let me think a bit and get back to you
Sounds good
I was able to discuss this with Harald. Neither one of us can understand how the probe went in that deep when neither of us probed it as male.
I can either refund $50 for the difference between sexes since it appears that we made a mistake sexing it or send you a prepaid label and you can ship the animal back to me Monday with a refund after the snake arrives and is in the same condition as when it left here. Let me know.
Steve
Steve
I thought about it and since we can come to an agreement, I will send you the snake back as soon as you send me the shipping label.
My reasoning? I am not breeding Bloods this year,,, all the adult females that I have coming will be on schedule next year. I am only purchasing juvenile to hatchlings males that I know can be up to breeding size in 12-18 months. It saves me lots of money... at $300 and even $250 I can get 2 males. I hope you can understand what I am trying to do.
If you send me the label today, the snake will go out tomorrow in the same container that you sent it. If not it will have to wait 'till Monday next week.
I will send you the label tonight but your math is off, you will not be able to get 2 male marble morphs for $250 to $300.
Ok
After the email saying OK, he sent me a link for Outbacks ad.Outback....Too funny.
Check their reputation. Good luck if you want to take a chance with Josh.
Way too many burnt people.
Check the BOI, Bush League Breeders, etc. They all have warnings about Josh and Outback.
Look,,, I am a 42 year old man that just retired with 22 years of service as an Army Special Forces Operator, not some little punk that wants to start a feud or send stabbing little e-mails back and forth because I am not getting my way.... or involve people that are not even involved in the situation or present to speak for themselves.
I was very respectful and king and if all of your replies there is either a smart remark or a doubtful assumption,,, so here is my last e-mail. Keep the $300 cause you seem to need them I don't,,, i will keep the snake not cause it is a female but because I don't want to deal with you anymore.... You are obviously insulted or butthurt over something that it is a very common mishap in the reptile business, but I guess it could never happen to you hugh?
I am so ############## pissed right now you better believe it is not good for you to call or e-mail me EVER again, keep the money I will keep the snake.... DO NOT REPLY
What the hell? I was not condescending. I was polite thru the whole thing. I was planning on taking the animal back and tried to give him a warning that he should think twice about buying from Outback. He flipped out on me.

I don't think I was condescending. Here is the exchange. His is in yellow. Some odd requests that I think he got mad about when I didn't want to do it.

Hi
How much does she weigh?
Is she guarantee to be a female?
300 shipped?
About 7 or 8 pounds. Sex guarenteed. $300 shipped if paid in full via paypal
I agreed to the lower price.
Hey Steve sounds good... A few things, could you please send me a pic of her? nothing personal I do it with everyone I purchase from for authentication purposes. And a contact number...
I will submit the payment today pending the photo and a solid contact number, if you don't mind. Thanks again
I supplied a photo with a paper in it showing the date and a contact number.
I've sent you the Paypal, below is the shipping info
Got it. Thanks.
I have some things going out Wednesday for Thursday delivery.
Would you be able to sign for her this Thursday morning or would you prefer another day?
Let me know.
Thursday is fine Steve, thanks... I'll be here all day, I love being retired.... If using UPS the normally deliver by 9:00 am. Thanks again!
Lucky. I still have a few more years to go.
I use Fed Ex. Should be there no later than 10:30am.
This girl is one of the best tempered short tails I have ever seen.
Here is a photo of her when she was only a week old.
Thanks for the pic its amazing how their colors change as they grow. I look forward to receiving her. I am not too savvy on Bloods but she will be looked after very well. The bulk of my collection are ball pythons (60+) but in looking to expand I've purchased a few bloods recently and they are super fun to keep. I've always wanted to keep reptiles full time but I was unable to do it before because I was gone all the time while in the military, now that I am home and momma is working on her retirement form the Air Force I have nothing but time.
It has been good doing business with you I'll be on the look out for the shipment notice on Wednesday, thanks a bunch
I then sent him his tracking info.
He called me when the snake arrived and said he probed it and it was a male. I said I would talk to the person who verified it by probing and popping as a female like I did.
Then I got this email.
Steve
Were you able to find anything out? I probed the snake again and it went pretty deep again on both sides... I've attached a photo of the size probe that I am using to give you an idea.
Please let me know...
Still waiting for them to get back to me.
There was no damage to the cloaca was there? Both myself and Harald from KBI got nowhere near that depth.
I will send you a pdf file of a prepaid shipping label to send the animal back.
Steve
I like the animal, but I also want to make sure that its a female. Earlier, I mentioned to you that I would hate to make a decision from a knee jerk reaction. I do not doubt that you and your friend sexed her and felt it was a female. I have absolutely have no reason to question your integrity and I hope you feel the same way about what I am telling you. I simply want to make sure that she is a female now that I probed her as a "male",,, you know that this stuff happens all the time, it has happened to me more than I care to remember even with some serious purchases of adult ball python morphs... please do not be offended. I do however want to make sure that we are in the same sheet and for now raise the awareness.
This is what I suggest,,, I have nothing but time if you agree to the let me do some more research and take her to people that know more about bloods than I do, but this make take me a couple weeks since next week I have a trip to San Antonio, TX for 5 days to watch my son graduate from his Air Force Basic Training. Until then she can be kept in my quarantine room away from any possible harm, warm, water and fed... Once I can get her sexed by "professionals" we can then make a decision. All this subject to your agreement...
BTW there is no damage to the cloaca?
Your thoughts, thanks
Let me think a bit and get back to you
Sounds good
I was able to discuss this with Harald. Neither one of us can understand how the probe went in that deep when neither of us probed it as male.
I can either refund $50 for the difference between sexes since it appears that we made a mistake sexing it or send you a prepaid label and you can ship the animal back to me Monday with a refund after the snake arrives and is in the same condition as when it left here. Let me know.
Steve
Steve
I thought about it and since we can come to an agreement, I will send you the snake back as soon as you send me the shipping label.
My reasoning? I am not breeding Bloods this year,,, all the adult females that I have coming will be on schedule next year. I am only purchasing juvenile to hatchlings males that I know can be up to breeding size in 12-18 months. It saves me lots of money... at $300 and even $250 I can get 2 males. I hope you can understand what I am trying to do.
If you send me the label today, the snake will go out tomorrow in the same container that you sent it. If not it will have to wait 'till Monday next week.
I will send you the label tonight but your math is off, you will not be able to get 2 male marble morphs for $250 to $300.
Ok
After the email saying OK, he sent me a link for Outbacks ad.Outback....Too funny.
Check their reputation. Good luck if you want to take a chance with Josh.
Way too many burnt people.
Check the BOI, Bush League Breeders, etc. They all have warnings about Josh and Outback.
Look,,, I am a 42 year old man that just retired with 22 years of service as an Army Special Forces Operator, not some little punk that wants to start a feud or send stabbing little e-mails back and forth because I am not getting my way.... or involve people that are not even involved in the situation or present to speak for themselves.
I was very respectful and king and if all of your replies there is either a smart remark or a doubtful assumption,,, so here is my last e-mail. Keep the $300 cause you seem to need them I don't,,, i will keep the snake not cause it is a female but because I don't want to deal with you anymore.... You are obviously insulted or butthurt over something that it is a very common mishap in the reptile business, but I guess it could never happen to you hugh?
I am so ############## pissed right now you better believe it is not good for you to call or e-mail me EVER again, keep the money I will keep the snake.... DO NOT REPLY
What the hell? I was not condescending. I was polite thru the whole thing. I was planning on taking the animal back and tried to give him a warning that he should think twice about buying from Outback. He flipped out on me.

Steve I highlighted in red the questionable areas, I agree he over reacted but when reading the thread I could see where he could take it as condescending.

Steve- I would say that you did in fact insult his intelligence or should I say question judgement. Coming from my expierences in life, I can take quite a bit of bashing and so forth but when it comes to questioning my intelligence/being condescending I have a real problem with that. I understand that you were willing to make things right, however it's the added comments that probably triggered his fuse. Just my take on it.

That is questioning his intelligence?
I was completely polite thruought the entire thing.
If that is what sets someone off, then too bad.
First, you do not compare Outbacks price on babies to a 3 year old adult and second, if those 3 highlighted words make someone go off the deep end, then there is more of a problem there then what I wrote.

I'm sure his remark about getting two for the cost of yours might of triggered off your fuse - but that's the crap you just have to let slide.... your comment outback....too funny is insulting or at the very least a jab - You did inform him about the dangers of dealing with outback, but there are better ways to inform someone other then being in their face about it. You just gotta let some of the shit people say slide....

After reading the entire exchange, I think your Outback comment did warrant a reaction....I don't think it warranted HIS reaction, but a reaction nonetheless, haha!

After reading the entire exchange, I think your Outback comment did warrant a reaction....I don't think it warranted HIS reaction, but a reaction nonetheless, haha!

Yeah HIS reaction was ridiculous.... although I don't really even see the point of posting this thread.

I dont get it!!
So the guy thought the sex was wrong,offered to send it back.
Providing you send him the shipping label.
He flipped his lid a little bit and brought up outback....
Sporry to say it but they are still selling and there are always going to be people looking for the lowest prices.

Nothing against you at all Steve so dont take it the wrong way......
But what is the purpose of this thread???
Did the guy rip you off or do anything horribly wrong?
seemed like he just wanted his money back.
Maybe he took it as you were beating around the bush and just wanted the shipping label.
Win some loose some in this industry.

Steve, what size probe did the buyer use to sex the animal? I know with bloods you must use the largest size possible because a small probe, will probe nearly as deep as a male.

Just a thought

I brought this up because now he wants to keep the animal and told me to never ever contact him again. He flips out and then says go screw he's keeping the animal. I don't get it. I was looking to see if any of you could shed some light on just what the hell happened with this deal because frankly I am really confused. I never expected it to turn out like this.

Larry, the photo showed a smaller probe than what Harald and I used.

I brought this up because now he wants to keep the animal and told me to never ever contact him again. He flips out and then says go screw he's keeping the animal. I don't get it. I was looking to see if any of you could shed some light on just what the hell happened with this deal because frankly I am really confused. I never expected it to turn out like this.

Larry, the photo showed a smaller probe than what Harald and I used.

That's easy fixed!

If your really confused and wanna know what happened.... send him a link to this thread or send his email to us and we'll contact him with a link to this thread. He can post his reasons here instead of just wondering what he thinks or us just theorizing on his behalf.... we can all get it from the horses mouth so to speak....

I brought this up because now he wants to keep the animal and told me to never ever contact him again. He flips out and then says go screw he's keeping the animal. I don't get it. I was looking to see if any of you could shed some light on just what the hell happened with this deal because frankly I am really confused. I never expected it to turn out like this.

Larry, the photo showed a smaller probe than what Harald and I used.

ahhhh ok.

Larry, the photo showed a smaller probe than what Harald and I used.

Maybe explain to him, that female bloods have very large hemipenial homologs and in order to acturately sex the animal he should use the largest probe possible.

That is questioning his intelligence?
I was completely polite thruought the entire thing.
If that is what sets someone off, then too bad.
First, you do not compare Outbacks price on babies to a 3 year old adult and second, if those 3 highlighted words make someone go off the deep end, then there is more of a problem there then what I wrote.

First Steve, the reason he sent you Outbacks ad is because you told him you can't get them for that price. Plus nowhere did I see him compare a 3 year old to a hatchling price. He flat out said he was buying younger males and didn't want a male that large.

Second, I'm sorry, but I think you were being condescending when you told him he couldn't touch them at that price. It may not have been your intention, but nonetheless that's the way it reads. Then you proceeded to tell him how bad they are to do business with. I agree with what you said about them, but not the fact that you said it. It had nothing to do with the business at hand. The best route would have been to just send the label, get the animal back and have done the refund. Who he was going to do business with and at what price had nothing to do with taking care of the customer. :yes:

The best route would have been to just send the label, get the animal back and have done the refund. Who he was going to do business with and at what price had nothing to do with taking care of the customer. :yes:

Well said. :yes:

:devil:I know the feeling. I had a jack off call me and tell me he could buy mystics for $800 and thats what he was going to pay for mine..... I REALLY LOST IT!!! I really told him where to stick it. He'll never call me again I promise you that. lol:devil:

Why is it people always feel the need to tell you where they can "get the same thing from XXXX for XXXXX price which is XXXX lower than yours", yet they don't don't by those and continue to try and get you to sell your animals for that price? I say it's your animal, your business....handle him how you want. Also, what was the point throwing in the "retired army special forces blah, blah, blah? Was that the point where you were supposed to be intimidated or impressed?? :dunno: :master: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Why is it people always feel the need to tell you where they can "get the same thing from XXXX for XXXXX price which is XXXX lower than yours", yet they don't don't by those and continue to try and get you to sell your animals for that price? I say it's your animal, your business....handle him how you want. Also, what was the point throwing in the "retired army special forces blah, blah, blah? Was that the point where you were supposed to be intimidated or impressed?? :dunno: :master: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

He did because Steve told him he couldn't - I haven't refreshed my memory by re-reading this thread, but I think the guy bought the animal - wanted a refund because of a supposed wrong sex....

I don't get the whole retired whatever either - has nothing to do with the business....

The best route would have been to just send the label, get the animal back and have done the refund. Who he was going to do business with and at what price had nothing to do with taking care of the customer. :yes:

:yes:

Wouldn't be reading this if that had of been done.... but shit happens.

Also, what was the point throwing in the "retired army special forces

People do it all the time as they think it will make their point more "important"

I had a slightly heated discussion with someone on another forum that was saying it is ok to call any dragon with some orange a sandfire, though sandfire is not a morph its a company name. he didn't understand that and at one point he said "Of course I know what Im talking about, im a grown ass man and deployed to Afghanistan twice". I did not continue that train of thought with him as I have deployed to Iraq 3 times and do not feel it brings me any closer to knowing everything about the reptile world. I just find it silly and sad when people say things like that.

People do it all the time as they think it will make their point more "important"

I had a slightly heated discussion with someone on another forum that was saying it is ok to call any dragon with some orange a sandfire, though sandfire is not a morph its a company name. he didn't understand that and at one point he said "Of course I know what Im talking about, im a grown ass man and deployed to Afghanistan twice". I did not continue that train of thought with him as I have deployed to Iraq 3 times and do not feel it brings me any closer to knowing everything about the reptile world. I just find it silly and sad when people say things like that.

Now come on man! You know we found the secret to life while over there! Dont act like you didnt find it over there too! :lol: