Since we were on the mojo pricing.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=635747

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/ChandlerReptiles/screen%20shots/AHRbpad.jpg

Another ad

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/ChandlerReptiles/screen%20shots/AHRchamad.jpg

Prices seem really low and off base to me. Yes I know Alex, used to think I know him at least....now I don't know what to think.

I know. People are getting desperate to make a quick buck. Prices for Calicos have went from $2500 to $1100. Its just sad. I hope the economy gets better so people can slow down on dropping those prices.

If you hit the link on the ks ad, you'll see the individual prices.... mostly males... most seem right and some seem up and down to me. Het albino male $20?

$75 for what looks like a beautiful yb male, but $100 for a dark looking stone washed pastel male?

Kinda odd way to price things.... I would of thought that YB would be the one $100 and that pastel at $75

Damn all those prices are crazy... het pieds for 125 on the high end? Is that for a female? Yikes.

some of those are crazy. I've seen male het pieds lower than 50 before, but if that is a female for 125 wow. the rest of the morphs I don't really know much about, never cared for BPs. I don't think alex is crazy by any means though, one of the msot trusted breeders I've ever delt with.

the pygmy prices don't surprise me at all, those have always been cheap. I remember picking up three dif species of pygmys ranging from $15-$30 each 4 years ago. prices haven't changed much since then on those guys.

I've seen that Alex Hue ad on kingsnake for a while now, and I've only seen male het pieds available for that price. I'm not sure if he ever offered het pied females at the prices listed.

What a bunch of Hipocrits. Most of you that have posted on this thread have been friends with Alex for a few years and have enjoyed the benifits of his generosity yourselves. Now you have a bug up your a$$ and want to cut him down for that same generosity. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Really I thought you were better people than this and I am truly disappointed.

Not to ruffle anyone's feathers but retailers everywhere are slashing prices to move inventory. Why would the pet reptile industry be any different? Bottom line is do you want to get something or do you want to get nothing? With consumers disposable income drastically reduced right now retailers are suffering severe cash flow shortages. Sale prices are the quickest way to make some cash. Ultimately the consumer's demand is going to set the price point. I personally think you will see prices reduced even more and then go up slightly as this current enconomy stabilizes. I don't think you'll see prices for high the end morphs like the BPs ever go back up to the price points they were. Like always though there will be something new to come out and the price on that will be very high until more are produced and more competitors enter the market.

What a bunch of Hipocrits. Most of you that have posted on this thread have been friends with Alex for a few years and have enjoyed the benifits of his generosity yourselves. Now you have a bug up your a$$ and want to cut him down for that same generosity. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Really I thought you were better people than this and I am truly disappointed.

Sounds more like a personal issue here Teresa, not to go off on a tangent but being on Alex's site is different from calling him a friend by any means, I was there for quite a length of time and saw maybe a handful of posts by him over the years. I have met him 3 times in person in all that time and never really got much of a chance to talk. If that is what you consider a friend then I feel really bad for you. I prefer to be able to talk to my friends.

You seem to be confused for some reason, benefits of generosity and hypocrite? I am very confused by those. If you care to be more specific in exactly what you are referring to here please don't muddy up an old thread about his pricing to do it since I don't believe you comments have anything to do with his prices. To satisfy your curiosity I have never sold one animal like that on that list and I have bought a woma python in his old auctions before I joined his site and I have 3 female import bp's here that I picked up at a show from him a few years back before I was learned what a broker was. I guarantee I paid more for that woma and for those imports than he did before he sold them.

Anymore questions please reserve them for PM or have the person that is pushing your buttons make any accusations.

Not to ruffle anyone's feathers but retailers everywhere are slashing prices to move inventory. Why would the pet reptile industry be any different? Bottom line is do you want to get something or do you want to get nothing? With consumers disposable income drastically reduced right now retailers are suffering severe cash flow shortages. Sale prices are the quickest way to make some cash. Ultimately the consumer's demand is going to set the price point. I personally think you will see prices reduced even more and then go up slightly as this current enconomy stabilizes. I don't think you'll see prices for high the end morphs like the BPs ever go back up to the price points they were. Like always though there will be something new to come out and the price on that will be very high until more are produced and more competitors enter the market.

If you think prices will go back up after the 'economy stabilizes' then you are living in a dream world, once they go down they stay down and that is the purpose of this section to alert the community at large of people that are selling below market value. Since you picked this thread to come out against I only have to assume that you don't think the prices in this 2 month old ad were just fine and you see no issues with het pied females for 125.

Since I've never visited Alex's website nor bought anything from him I guess I can post my thoughts without being called a hypocrite. :devil:

The ad looks like it's been running since December -- but unless I missed it I don't see any het pieds on his site for sale nor most of the stuff he's got listed for sale in the ad -- perhaps he sold out IDK maybe all he had left were males when he posted the ad???? Hard to judge what you don't have all the information on. Seems like he has been one of them that lists on the lower end of the spectrum but I don't think I recall him being unreasonable in his pricing before.

Since you picked this thread to come out against I only have to assume that you don't think the prices in this 2 month old ad were just fine and you see no issues with het pied females for 125.

I'm just going to reiterate that I saw those ads up and checked up on Alex's site when they first started showing up. I saw no het pied females for $125. I'm guessing that he put the low prices up to get people interested. Pricing overall was pretty ridiculous, but on the other hand, he was selling a lot of het males.

Not to ruffle anyone's feathers but retailers everywhere are slashing prices to move inventory. Why would the pet reptile industry be any different? Bottom line is do you want to get something or do you want to get nothing? With consumers disposable income drastically reduced right now retailers are suffering severe cash flow shortages. Sale prices are the quickest way to make some cash. Ultimately the consumer's demand is going to set the price point. I personally think you will see prices reduced even more and then go up slightly as this current enconomy stabilizes. I don't think you'll see prices for high the end morphs like the BPs ever go back up to the price points they were. Like always though there will be something new to come out and the price on that will be very high until more are produced and more competitors enter the market.

Breeders on Kingsnake slash prices to move their inventory? I dont get this. Big breeders like RDR,VPI,NERD,TSK, and even Bob Clark havent slashed their prices. Why not? I would assume they have more inventory then the normal breeder would on Kingsnake.

This entire thread was started because of a list of prices found on this thread, looked over ks and found this ad but here is the other thread since it has been now dug up from 2 months ago...all other posts at that time with the similar pricing should be taken in also because it only takes one person to start the downward pricing trend. Don't know and don't really care who started the low prices but alot of others followed. Hell I haven't even bothered to look tonight to see what the pricing is at right now.

http://www.reptileradio.net/reptileradio/showthread.php?p=37278&highlight=mojo+prices#post37278

Not to ruffle anyone's feathers but retailers everywhere are slashing prices to move inventory. Why would the pet reptile industry be any different? Bottom line is do you want to get something or do you want to get nothing? With consumers disposable income drastically reduced right now retailers are suffering severe cash flow shortages. Sale prices are the quickest way to make some cash. Ultimately the consumer's demand is going to set the price point. I personally think you will see prices reduced even more and then go up slightly as this current enconomy stabilizes. I don't think you'll see prices for high the end morphs like the BPs ever go back up to the price points they were. Like always though there will be something new to come out and the price on that will be very high until more are produced and more competitors enter the market.

Here you go..

As the market adjusts there is nothing wrong with adjusting with it.

On the other hand if you are the one that is doing the adjusting then you're a "Market Crasher" plain and simple.

:yessir:

I posted on here to provide a different view point. I respect and understand everyone else's point of view for posting on here. I am totally for private breeders getting as much as they can for their animals. I am totally against however, price fixing or any attempts to. The market is uncontrollable and you have to let it roll. Competitors are an uncontrollable factor of the market. Price is certainly not the one and only deciding factor on where you buy your products, on anything. Some people are going to pay that extra money for the brand name identity or to buy from a breeder that is trusted. If you can keep your prices the same and compete then do so.

Right now with the economy in a recession I would say you can't really call someone a "market crasher." It's the market that is forcing them to do so. Everything is going down in price right now. Real estate has gone down in price. This is a prime time to invest in real estate right now while the market is down. Ball pythons or anything in our industry is no different. This is a great time to invest in designer morphs with people selling off their breeding stock or lowering the price on their inventory. It's ECONOMICS, you cannot control it. There are going to be uncontrollable ups and downs in the reptile business like anything. Prices will go down during this recession and they will go back up. They may not go back up to the levels they were before, but they will go back up.

I would say you can't really call someone a "market crasher." It's the market that is forcing them to do so.

Yes you can. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The lagging enconomy effects us all, the falling market effects us all. As the market adjusts there is nothing wrong with adjusting with it.

On the other hand if you are the one that is doing the adjusting then you're a "Market Crasher" plain and simple...

They may not go back up to the levels they were before, but they will go back up.

I don't believe they will..

There is nothing wrong with your point of view, you seem to be looking at things from a standard business perspective. I believe the reptile market is a different animal in and of it's self..

BTW James I don't mean to come off like a jerk, if I have I apologize. I've heard you're one of the good guys and I'll hold you to it..;)

I don't believe they will..

There is nothing wrong with your point of view, you seem to be looking at things from a standard business perspective. I believe the reptile market is a different animal in and of it's self..

I agree with you Larry, I've never seen the price of any animal go back up after the prices are slashed. It's a lot different with retail stores selling tvs etc. They just take them off the "sale" ad and return the price to "retail". Once the prices on ball pythons goes down that is considered the new "retail".

I just did a quick a browse of the BP category on Kingsnake. Doesn't look like prices are going down that much. I saw female Pie Balds actually under $2000 but then I see Clowns for $2000+ and a Striped female for $6000. None of the other morphs really look that far off for price either. I really wouldn't worry about one or two competitors cutting themselves off at the knees. They might make a quick sale, but once their expended of inventory they're done. It's like the guys that buy a 100 Ghana farm babies for $5 and sell them for $10. At the end of the summer it's like wow way to net $500. By the way you'll be seeing them here soon too. It's getting to be that time of year.

Alot of people I think don't take into consideration that this is here for us to keep watch of people in the industry, note the people selling low to establish a pattern from the same ones and the ones that we would stay away from.

To me it is about accountability in their actions not brow beating someone into submission and making them sell something at a certain price. Just record keeping for informed buyers. If people are wrong in what they are thinking (which it has already happened in it's short lifespan here) that is corrected in the thread.

I really wouldn't worry about one or two competitors cutting themselves off at the knees. They might make a quick sale, but once their expended of inventory they're done.

That's just it, they are not done.... they go buy another wholesale lot and repeat their practices....

If people are wrong in what they are thinking (which it has already happened in it's short lifespan here) that is corrected in the thread.

Roger that..

That same free spirited attitude that drives these Bush-Leaguers to hold people accountable, also speak up when illegitimate threads are started..

Roger that..

That same free spirited attitude that drives these Bush-Leaguers to hold people accountable, also speak up when illegitimate threads are started..


Accountability all around.... :yessir:

thanks to this thread and others pointing out cheap morphs, my son was able to scoop up some really good deals...

This is a prime example of why these threads are dangerous and I've always been against such threads. but hay, my son is happy! and he got a pair of nice het pieds for next to nothing.

Are they really het pieds? You get what you pay for. I have heard of many great deals on hets that never prove out. Hets are the last thing you want to skimp on. Hope you werent had, if you were you are one of many.

thanks to this thread and others pointing out cheap morphs, my son was able to scoop up some really good deals...

This is a prime example of why these threads are dangerous and I've always been against such threads. but hay, my son is happy! and he got a pair of nice het pieds for next to nothing.


Way to support them market crashers -- I guess that leaves you no room to complain when you can't get a decent price for whatever you produce in the future.

http://jetpythons.com/yousucksad.jpg

Ok, I got a question for you all....just exactly what are you supposed to do when your animals aren't moving at the "market" price and you need the space for more babies and/or you can't afford to feed everyone? I still have animals that I produced that are 2.5 years old now. Yeah. yeah. I know...stop producing them, which I did in 2008. I didn't put ANY of my colubrids together. Still, it's getting a bit spendy feeding everyone. Am I suppose to keep them priced at "market"? I won't sell them for a ridiculously low price, but I am open to deals. Anyone who thinks that the price of ball python morphs (for example) should drop at a slow steady pace (or not at all) knows nothing about economics or supply/demand. And right now with this economy, supply is up and demand is low! The "big" guys can keep their prices up because they started the morph craze and have stellar reputations...name brand does carry a premium! So, what's the little guy suposed to do, price the same as the big guys? Yeah, right...who do you think will get all the business then? That's why the price of reptiles has gone down. Just my opinion.

To Ssnakes Ramp up your rat production.!!! And Scrubby your a real piece of work.... Your a real shit stirrer... Why even come here and say what you said???? Just cause your son supports market crashing trash?...(not talking about AHR just crashers in general) You think we want to know or even care that he supports people like that..???? Keep that shit to yourself..... Or go post it on another forum... I bet you could find one that would tell you great job.. But this ain't it buddy.....

Alan

Are they really het pieds? You get what you pay for. I have heard of many great deals on hets that never prove out. Hets are the last thing you want to skimp on. Hope you werent had, if you were you are one of many.

100% sure, they are a very reputable person.

Way to support them market crashers -- I guess that leaves you no room to complain when you can't get a decent price for whatever you produce in the future.



I'm not going to complain, I never do, I'll continue to feed off of others weaknesses...

To Ssnakes Ramp up your rat production.!!! And Scrubby your a real piece of work.... Your a real shit stirrer... Why even come here and say what you said???? Just cause your son supports market crashing trash?...(not talking about AHR just crashers in general) You think we want to know or even care that he supports people like that..???? Keep that shit to yourself..... Or go post it on another forum... I bet you could find one that would tell you great job.. But this ain't it buddy.....

Alan

Me a shit Stirrer? You guys start this crap by making posts and by directing people on where to go to get inexpensive snakes. Like I said in my post, if you folks stopped posting those ad's many folks won't know.

Keep in mind folks, this is a buyers market we are in.

Best of luck

Rob

Ok, I got a question for you all....just exactly what are you supposed to do when your animals aren't moving at the "market" price and you need the space for more babies and/or you can't afford to feed everyone? I still have animals that I produced that are 2.5 years old now. Yeah. yeah. I know...stop producing them, which I did in 2008. I didn't put ANY of my colubrids together. Still, it's getting a bit spendy feeding everyone. Am I suppose to keep them priced at "market"? I won't sell them for a ridiculously low price, but I am open to deals. Anyone who thinks that the price of ball python morphs (for example) should drop at a slow steady pace (or not at all) knows nothing about economics or supply/demand. And right now with this economy, supply is up and demand is low! The "big" guys can keep their prices up because they started the morph craze and have stellar reputations...name brand does carry a premium! So, what's the little guy suposed to do, price the same as the big guys? Yeah, right...who do you think will get all the business then? That's why the price of reptiles has gone down. Just my opinion.

Ask Ralph Davis, The sutherlands, VPI, BHB, and NERD what they do when they produce alot of animals and cant move them. Im sure they have way more animals than me you and the rest of the keepers on this forum. They have it even worse. And on top of that, they have to deal with all of the market crashers. They know what will happen if they sell a mojo for $200.

In all honesty, they're the ones saving whats left of this industry.

Ask Ralph Davis, The sutherlands, VPI, BHB, and NERD what they do when they produce alot of animals and cant move them. Im sure they have way more animals than me you and the rest of the keepers on this forum. They have it even worse. And on top of that, they have to deal with all of the market crashers. They know what will happen if they sell a mojo for $200.

In all honesty, they're the ones saving whats left of this industry.

Hmmm, I'm not too sure they'll tell me...lol. Methinks they move quite a few animals at a deep discount very quitely, so as to not upset the apple cart...wholesaling, as it were. They can't be selling every single animal they have at market!

To Ssnakes Ramp up your rat production.!!!

Alan


Yep, already trying to do that. I'm saving up for another Freedom Breeder rack. I have one now and it's a real timesaver! I also "retired" about half the current rat production and the replacements are just now starting to have babies.

Yep, already trying to do that. I'm saving up for another Freedom Breeder rack. I have one now and it's a real timesaver! I also "retired" about half the current rat production and the replacements are just now starting to have babies.

You need lots of rats.... feed em steroids or something :lol:

Yep, already trying to do that. I'm saving up for another Freedom Breeder rack. I have one now and it's a real timesaver! I also "retired" about half the current rat production and the replacements are just now starting to have babies.

What do you keep? Post em.:)

What do you keep? Post em.:)

Ah yes, I knew the pic police would be after me shortly...lol. I have morphs of cal-kings, mbks, prairie kings, variable kings, honduran milks, Sinoloan milks, just got back into a few corns, Kenyan sand boas, rosy boas, Argentine boas, hog island boas, Sonoran boas, Dumerils boas, Bolivian boas, morphs of ball pythons, carpet pythons (jungle, coastal, Irian Jaya, & Bredli), childrens pythons, olive pythons, water pythons (L Fuscus), and a few more that I'm forgeting...lol. I'll try and see if I can get some pics up. My colubrids are coming out of brumation this week. Right now, I'm busy as heck transforming my 3 snake rooms around...moving stuff and building new AP racks.

You need lots of rats.... feed em steroids or something :lol:

Yep, I DO need lots of rats, but I don't need them strong enough to tear through the wire mesh...:lol:

Ask Ralph Davis, The sutherlands, VPI, BHB, and NERD what they do when they produce alot of animals and cant move them. Im sure they have way more animals than me you and the rest of the keepers on this forum. They have it even worse. And on top of that, they have to deal with all of the market crashers. They know what will happen if they sell a mojo for $200.

In all honesty, they're the ones saving whats left of this industry.

I know this post is over but this question got me thinking....i know alot of large breeders sell some of their stuff for whole-sale lots of 10 or more...which is around 1/2 the cost of market value or lower, i bet some of the guys above do this, so do you guys think selling whole-sale is crashing the market....i know i give whole-sale deals to some of my guys that order 5 or more....dont you guys???

well prices were up at least $100 bucks on most morphs at the Hamburg show that I seen. I don't like seeing prices go down either but people need money its really bad out there.

If it comes to a point you have to wholesale x number of morphs I see that as mass producing.

I may be going out on a limb here -- but if they are wholesaling in large numbers -- my guess would be that the people on the receiving end are likely (dare I say it) flipping them -- and the BLBC has a policy on flipping :devil: Either that or they freeze what they don't want to bother selling. :cool:

i know alot of people that started by getting a 10 lot of a reptiles to get the breeding groups going. Thats how i first started breeding geckos, got a 10 lot of crested geckos from a big name breeder at wholesale cost,...... not everyone that buys lots flips them...i bet if i called up BHB and asked them about lot pricing, i could get some of their low end stuff, dont think i would be getting any morphs, but i do think thats how they move things that dont sell and to keep them afloat when sales are down...

i know alot of people that started by getting a 10 lot of a reptiles to get the breeding groups going. Thats how i first started breeding geckos, got a 10 lot of crested geckos from a big name breeder at wholesale cost,...... not everyone that buys lots flips them...i bet if i called up BHB and asked them about lot pricing, i could get some of their low end stuff, dont think i would be getting any morphs, but i do think thats how they move things that dont sell and to keep them afloat when sales are down...

Yes they have moved on to bigger and better things like double and triple gene animals so they probably have no need for low end stuff anymore, their bread and butter as you put it. Is that the answer you keep fishing for?

I am interested how you would rate the caliber of crested geckos you got, high end, mid range, etc...another time perhaps.

Honestly if you want to call out BHB for something then you should do it in it's own thread not here. The difference in what you wrote above and what we are talking about is you having to call BHB for those wholesale ideas and prices, they are not out advertising wholesale lots of stuff that I am aware of.

Yes they have moved on to bigger and better things like double and triple gene animals so they probably have no need for low end stuff anymore, their bread and butter as you put it. Is that the answer you keep fishing for?

I am interested how you would rate the caliber of crested geckos you got, high end, mid range, etc...another time perhaps.

Honestly if you want to call out BHB for something then you should do it in it's own thread not here. The difference in what you wrote above and what we are talking about is you having to call BHB for those wholesale ideas and prices, they are not out advertising wholesale lots of stuff that I am aware of.


i wasnt calling anyone out...i was replying to Chris's message about large name breeders and"what they do when they produce alot of animals and cant move them" to tell the truth i dont know what they do and i have never asked BHB.... some breeders that produce alot of animals wholesale, thats it....dont make it sound like im sh$t talking a great breeder because im not.....

feel free to look at my web site and you can see caliber of my geckos for yourself, im more then happy to give you their website, he is one of the top breeders in the US, so yes he has great stuff

i wasnt calling anyone out...i was replying to Chris's message about large name breeders and"what they do when they produce alot of animals and cant move them" to tell the truth i dont know what they do and i have never asked BHB.... some breeders that produce alot of animals wholesale, thats it....dont make it sound like im sh$t talking a great breeder because im not.....

feel free to look at my web site and you can see caliber of my geckos for yourself, im more then happy to give you their website, he is one of the top breeders in the US, so yes he has great stuff

You chose them as the name you went with then for you example in response to either Tosha or my response, not in your original quote of Chris that is why I phrased it the way I did. I am not making it seem like you are shit talking anyone, I am pointing out that you are trying to defend the flipper and mass producers that we are fundamentally against.

The other point I was trying to make is that I don't see 10 or 20 lots of morph bp's for sale from these big name mass producers, do they make those deals I am sure they do but not in the public eye that I am aware of.

BHB was just one of the name he tossed out in his question, guess i could have went with one of the other 5 names he asked about.......wasn't trying to defend a flipper, just answering the question. yeah, i dont think they would be morphs, but normals, and maybe poss hets. i looked at a big name site i found 8 normal bp and over 200 morph bp's....i know they gotta have more then that.....

Wow this is getting to be a hot post. I would ask does anyone in the Ball Python community think about producing Ball morphs at an economies of scale?

For me every female Crested Gecko I have is 20 eggs a year. Someone mentioned rating Crested Geckos. I actually don't rate them. Some look nicer than others, yes. The fact is they're a polymorphic species. You can pay $200 or more on Kingsnake for a "morph" or you can go down to Petco and find an animal that looks very similar for $50 to $60.00 without shipping. There are no genetic mutations like Ball Pythons or Boas. My aim of producing Crested Geckos is to provide independent pet stores a source of Crested Geckos that is priced at such that they can compete with Petco price wise and still maintain similar margins. The more Cresteds I produce the more animals the cost of producing them is spread across thus reducing my costs of doing business. Economies of scale at work.

What would be so wrong about selling lots of Ball Python morphs. Or even considering producing them in large quantities? The more you produce the less it is going to cost you. You could still retail at the market price as everyone else. You could also sell to larger businesses in the industry, "flippers", that have a target market that would buy them.

Wow this is getting to be a hot post. I would ask does anyone in the Ball Python community think about producing Ball morphs at an economies of scale?

For me every female Crested Gecko I have is 20 eggs a year. Someone mentioned rating Crested Geckos. I actually don't rate them. Some look nicer than others, yes. The fact is they're a polymorphic species. You can pay $200 or more on Kingsnake for a "morph" or you can go down to Petco and find an animal that looks very similar for $50 to $60.00 without shipping. There are no genetic mutations like Ball Pythons or Boas. My aim of producing Crested Geckos is to provide independent pet stores a source of Crested Geckos that is priced at such that they can compete with Petco price wise and still maintain similar margins. The more Cresteds I produce the more animals the cost of producing them is spread across thus reducing my costs of doing business. Economies of scale at work.

What would be so wrong about selling lots of Ball Python morphs. Or even considering producing them in large quantities? The more you produce the less it is going to cost you. You could still retail at the market price as everyone else. You could also sell to larger businesses in the industry, "flippers", that have a target market that would buy them.

Here's the thing, while the more crested geckos you produce may mean higher profits per animal, it's not the case with ball pythons. Ball pythons are exorbitantly more expensive to keep than crested geckos (heating, space, rats). On top of that, there are only so many ball pythons that you can cram into a house. If you actually want to produce significant volumes of snakes, you need to build or rent your own space to do so. With such high costs that the average hobby breeder doesn't have to incur, the bigger breeders make less per animal than the small guys breeding out of their houses.

In short, there already are guys doing what you mentioned. They're called professional breeders. It's just not feasible for small-time people to sell to pet stores. They're either losing money selling normals in order to compete with importers, or they're not selling morphs because the demand just isn't there.

What would be so wrong about selling lots of Ball Python morphs. Or even considering producing them in large quantities? The more you produce the less it is going to cost you. You could still retail at the market price as everyone else. You could also sell to larger businesses in the industry, "flippers", that have a target market that would buy them.

Why would you sell them to flippers or flipper suppliers?

I understand where you guys are coming from on this. I have more of a full-timer's perspective. Part-timers are just as important in this industry, but if you break down the costs one could make significantly more than a hobbyist working out of his home with a few animals. It's a pretty out there statement to make that hobbyists make more than professional breeders per animal. I'm a numbers guy. I would say come up with a business plan and show me that. Doesn't matter how you crunch the numbers, it's manufacturing. Economies of scale apply to any sort of production. The more you produce of said product, the less each unit produced costs. In this case unit=Ball Python. Now if you were to go rent a space and fill it with racks, incubators, animals, computers, spend money on marketing, website ect...Yes there would be significant start up costs with no guarantee of success. That's any business though. It's far riskier to take the calculated risk of owning a business versus clocking in and out at everyday and Passing GO. I would say though if you are selling morphs at $2000-$7000 plus and maybe selling 10 to 20 lots less 20% to stores and wholesalers one would still make significant margins compared to what their costs are.

I understand where you guys are coming from on this. I have more of a full-timer's perspective. Part-timers are just as important in this industry, but if you break down the costs one could make significantly more than a hobbyist working out of his home with a few animals. It's a pretty out there statement to make that hobbyists make more than professional breeders per animal. I'm a numbers guy. I would say come up with a business plan and show me that. Doesn't matter how you crunch the numbers, it's manufacturing. Economies of scale apply to any sort of production. The more you produce of said product, the less each unit produced costs. In this case unit=Ball Python. Now if you were to go rent a space and fill it with racks, incubators, animals, computers, spend money on marketing, website ect...Yes there would be significant start up costs with no guarantee of success. That's any business though. It's far riskier to take the calculated risk of owning a business versus clocking in and out at everyday and Passing GO. I would say though if you are selling morphs at $2000-$7000 plus and maybe selling 10 to 20 lots less 20% to stores and wholesalers one would still make significant margins compared to what their costs are.

Dude, I know what you're saying. You don't know what I'm saying.

1) Ball pythons are expensive to keep, take up a lot of space
2) The potential profit is entirely non-existent (for normals) to minimal (for common morphs). Yes, high end stuff can make some real money, but those are not common and are far more expensive and more difficult to produce.
3) Ball pythons do not produce a lot of offspring.
4) Nobody wholesales 2000-7000 dollar snakes. Nobody. Why not? The question, really, is why would they? Nobody is throwing around that kind of cash anymore. You can't show up to a pet store, say "I've got a $7000 snake that I'll sell to you for 5 grand". Their response will be, "I can't sell that thing". Yeah, some people sell in numbers at a discount, but it isn't wholesaling in the typical sense. Instead, people that do produce any numbers of those big ticket animals just sell them themselves. Why? Because they can. There's simply no need for a middleman because the supply and demand is so small they don't need one.
5) Do you know how difficult it is to make 2000-7000 dollar snakes? From a typical clutch, you might get 1. And not many snakes are up in that price range anymore to begin with.

So what you're really saying is, come up with a couple hundred grand, make as many frickin high end ball pythons as you can, sell them off as quickly as you can and you'll make a bundle. You know what? Someone did that. His name was Joe Capone and he started Morph King.

It is not an "out there" statement to say that hobbyists can make more per animal than a big-time breeder. The overhead for a big-time breeder is significantly more than for a hobbyist. Listen to Brian from BHB when he was on reptileradio. He says as much when he was on the show. He's one of the biggest breeders around, and yeah, he makes really good money. But the way he makes that money is by the sheer volume of snakes he sells, not because he's making more per snake than anyone else.

I understand where you guys are coming from on this. I have more of a full-timer's perspective. Part-timers are just as important in this industry, but if you break down the costs one could make significantly more than a hobbyist working out of his home with a few animals. It's a pretty out there statement to make that hobbyists make more than professional breeders per animal. I'm a numbers guy. I would say come up with a business plan and show me that. Doesn't matter how you crunch the numbers, it's manufacturing. Economies of scale apply to any sort of production. The more you produce of said product, the less each unit produced costs. In this case unit=Ball Python. Now if you were to go rent a space and fill it with racks, incubators, animals, computers, spend money on marketing, website ect...Yes there would be significant start up costs with no guarantee of success. That's any business though. It's far riskier to take the calculated risk of owning a business versus clocking in and out at everyday and Passing GO. I would say though if you are selling morphs at $2000-$7000 plus and maybe selling 10 to 20 lots less 20% to stores and wholesalers one would still make significant margins compared to what their costs are.

You are looking at this from a big business stand point and not a small breeders stand point, like your last set of posts in this thread. The idea that you can sell wholesale lots of your product is different from people who advertise wholesale lots of their product.

Am I opposed to mass producing, yes but I don't harp over wholesaling out of the public eye, you have to have an outlet for your product and public ads are not the way to do it because in the case of kingsnake people use it as a price guide. You see a lot of 10 animals at a 20-30% discount and some people are to just smart enough to be able to do the math to figure out the individual price but not smart enough to figure out that it is only in large quantities so in turn that is set as the new price they sell their animals at and it snowballs from there.

Business to business is one thing but none of what is being discussed here or the other 20 threads on flipping, middlemen, mass producers and wanna be's.

This thread has taken enough off the wall abuse so if anyone wants to discuss business to business dealings, wholesale vs. individual sales please start your own thread in The Market and Business Talk Section. (http://www.reptileradio.net/reptileradio/forumdisplay.php?f=42)

YOU GOTTA UNDERSTAND ITS JUST LIKE WALMART THE BIG GUYS SELLS CHEAPER & THE LITTLE MOM & POPS LOSE.THATS FREE MARKET.

Dude, I know what you're saying. You don't know what I'm saying.

1) Ball pythons are expensive to keep, take up a lot of space
2) The potential profit is entirely non-existent (for normals) to minimal (for common morphs). Yes, high end stuff can make some real money, but those are not common and are far more expensive and more difficult to produce.
3) Ball pythons do not produce a lot of offspring.
4) Nobody wholesales 2000-7000 dollar snakes. Nobody. Why not? The question, really, is why would they? Nobody is throwing around that kind of cash anymore. You can't show up to a pet store, say "I've got a $7000 snake that I'll sell to you for 5 grand". Their response will be, "I can't sell that thing". Yeah, some people sell in numbers at a discount, but it isn't wholesaling in the typical sense. Instead, people that do produce any numbers of those big ticket animals just sell them themselves. Why? Because they can. There's simply no need for a middleman because the supply and demand is so small they don't need one.
5) Do you know how difficult it is to make 2000-7000 dollar snakes? From a typical clutch, you might get 1. And not many snakes are up in that price range anymore to begin with.

So what you're really saying is, come up with a couple hundred grand, make as many frickin high end ball pythons as you can, sell them off as quickly as you can and you'll make a bundle. You know what? Someone did that. His name was Joe Capone and he started Morph King.

It is not an "out there" statement to say that hobbyists can make more per animal than a big-time breeder. The overhead for a big-time breeder is significantly more than for a hobbyist. Listen to Brian from BHB when he was on reptileradio. He says as much when he was on the show. He's one of the biggest breeders around, and yeah, he makes really good money. But the way he makes that money is by the sheer volume of snakes he sells, not because he's making more per snake than anyone else.

Great post...:yessir:

Well,

I was going to post a couple of wholesale lists, minus the prices of course because they are password protected. I thought better though. It might have rattled the mob's cage a bit too much. See everyone on another thread.


Now that would have been a good post...........:yessir:

James

Well,

I was going to post a couple of wholesale lists, minus the prices of course because they are password protected. I thought better though. It might have rattled the mob's cage a bit too much. See everyone on another thread.


Now that would have been a good post...........:yessir:

James

Would of? Might of? Was going to? Rather pointless to even mention it isn't it?

Just keep baiting that hook....:lol:

100% sure, they are a very reputable person.



I'm not going to complain, I never do, I'll continue to feed off of others weaknesses...



Me a shit Stirrer? You guys start this crap by making posts and by directing people on where to go to get inexpensive snakes. Like I said in my post, if you folks stopped posting those ad's many folks won't know.

Keep in mind folks, this is a buyers market we are in.

Best of luck

Rob

I know this post is old but this guy rubs me the wrong way....

Rob you are an ass... Please go away......

I know this post is old but this guy rubs me the wrong way....

Rob you are an ass... Please go away......

:police:
OK you've been warned, that's enough drama on the open board. If you have an issue with another member take it to the Saloon...

To be honest I don't like seeing you dig up old threads just to cause problems.
:police:

I will not even coment on the idiocy of your post Norsmis (cool palindrome by the way ron sims)

I'm going to continue to enjoy my vacation here on Sanibel Island that I paid for by selling my offspring at what I felt they were worth.

Ok, Grouper on the grill is calling my name....

Cheers

Rob

I will not even coment on the idiocy of your post Norsmis (cool palindrome by the way ron sims)

I'm going to continue to enjoy my vacation here on Sanibel Island that I paid for by selling my offspring at what I felt they were worth.

Ok, Grouper on the grill is calling my name....

Cheers

Rob

Well you did so it have bothered you. We can take this to the saloon big shot....

Good grief, I am locking this thread, it has gone off on a damn tangent so many times it isn't even funny anymore.

If anyone has anything relevant to the thread please pm a moderator to have it reopened.