Educating Kingsnake on J&J [Archive] - Reptile Forum

CornerstoneReps

12-18-2008, 05:01 PM

I don't expect to get many (any) amens to this post, but I feel like I need to say something.

As you can see in Albey's screenshot, I posted a reply to the thread on KS asking for feedback on J&J Reptiles. In that reply I stated that I consider Josh to be a good guy and that I have been very satisfied with the animals I have purchased from him over the past few years.

Josh has always been friendly to me, has always taken the time to reply to every email or phone call he has received from me. He has always been willing to answer each and every question I had concerning an animal I was considering purchasing from him. If I asked for additional pictures of those animals, they were received in a timely manner.

Josh is a member of a small group of people that I have done business with over the past 4 1/2 years that I consider to be my A+ list. I have purchased over 200 Ball Pythons during that period, some of them from some of the biggest names in the business and many of them are not on that list.

The majority of the animals I have purchased from Josh have been captive hatched, but I have also purchased some morphs from him. I do not consider any of them to be inferior in quality. The prices that I paid for those animals was never the reason for the purchase and in every case I can recall the price was in the range of fair market value.

I don't mean to offend anyone with this post, but I'm sure there are some who will take issue with what I have written. I will not reply again in this thread as I will not be drawn into a confrontation concerning this subject. I just felt that I needed to say this.

Tosha

12-18-2008, 05:06 PM

KS does not seem to care much about being educated.

Hey, what do you guys use to get your screen shots?

KS won't let you post derogatory comments due to having been sued a few times because of it - from what I've heard someone thats been around longer might be able to better confirm that. But that is their policy - no derogatory comments or attacking.

For screen shots I use Ctrl Alt Print Screen and then just paste into my photo/image program.

JOHNS6068

12-18-2008, 05:10 PM

Nice job Albey and Bill :yourock:

DanielA989

12-18-2008, 05:16 PM

Hopefully this turns out, its an old ad of JnJ saying the take "unwanted" animals.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/wildbill_photos/jnjunwanted.jpg

That's Classic!! !! :lol:

AaronP

12-18-2008, 07:48 PM

I can't wait till I get my new Credentials site off the ground... I really don't like it when people are like "Check the feedback on my site", right cause you wouldn't delete any negative feedback you got if you could.

Bullshit.

JChandler

12-18-2008, 09:21 PM

Josh is a member of a small group of people that I have done business with over the past 4 1/2 years that I consider to be my A+ list. I have purchased over 200 Ball Pythons during that period, some of them from some of the biggest names in the business and many of them are not on that list.

The majority of the animals I have purchased from Josh have been captive hatched, but I have also purchased some morphs from him. I do not consider any of them to be inferior in quality. The prices that I paid for those animals was never the reason for the purchase and in every case I can recall the price was in the range of fair market value.

I don't mean to offend anyone with this post, but I'm sure there are some who will take issue with what I have written. I will not reply again in this thread as I will not be drawn into a confrontation concerning this subject. I just felt that I needed to say this.

Yeah chalk me up in that catagory of people with an issue....

Since your not going to reply I won't ask any questions, but I will make a statement.

You don't consider the animals to be inferior in quality, well no shit what would I expect you to come out and say I bought some stuff from them and it's garbage but they are on my A+ list.

JOHNS6068

12-18-2008, 09:26 PM

You don't consider the animals to be inferior in quality, well no shit what would I expect you to come out and say I bought some stuff from them and it's garbage but they are on my A+ list.

You never know it's possible???? I've seen some pretty wild statements today on here :rolleyes:

12-18-2008, 10:40 PM

Good work Albey and Bill...Funny as all hell but it's a shame how KS runs their forums...Good work to you too Tosha...

I don't expect to get many (any) amens to this post, but I feel like I need to say something.

As you can see in Albey's screenshot, I posted a reply to the thread on KS asking for feedback on J&J Reptiles. In that reply I stated that I consider Josh to be a good guy and that I have been very satisfied with the animals I have purchased from him over the past few years.

Josh has always been friendly to me, has always taken the time to reply to every email or phone call he has received from me. He has always been willing to answer each and every question I had concerning an animal I was considering purchasing from him. If I asked for additional pictures of those animals, they were received in a timely manner.

Josh is a member of a small group of people that I have done business with over the past 4 1/2 years that I consider to be my A+ list. I have purchased over 200 Ball Pythons during that period, some of them from some of the biggest names in the business and many of them are not on that list.

The majority of the animals I have purchased from Josh have been captive hatched, but I have also purchased some morphs from him. I do not consider any of them to be inferior in quality. The prices that I paid for those animals was never the reason for the purchase and in every case I can recall the price was in the range of fair market value.

I don't mean to offend anyone with this post, but I'm sure there are some who will take issue with what I have written. I will not reply again in this thread as I will not be drawn into a confrontation concerning this subject. I just felt that I needed to say this.

Louis - I'm not going to go on and on about this but seriously - Come on...Every wonder why JnJ just lurks here everyday and won't post...Won't even try to defend his business...Does he think he'll end up putting his foot in his mouth like good ol Gary did today? Did you buy one of his CH "Grey Scaled Calicos"...? Who wouldn't (within reason) answer emails, questions or phone calls if they think they have a chance at making a sell...Have you not seen his misrepresenting ad's? Why won't he even answer questions? I believe Tosha made a great point about his post...Everybody knows he peddles Ian G.'s stuff - Ian G. sells to the public so what he said in his response on KS is a lie...If JnJ is on your A+ List - Good Lord dude - I feel for ya...Look at the animals in his ads - That's what you consider A+? Look at the screen shot Bill posted...And this is a guy you stand up for? Just doesn't make sense too me....

luciddream

12-18-2008, 11:43 PM

Good work Albey and Bill...Funny as all hell but it's a shame how KS runs their forums...Good work to you too Tosha...

Louis - I'm not going to go on and on about this but seriously - Come on...Every wonder why JnJ just lurks here everyday and won't post...Won't even try to defend his business...Does he think he'll end up putting his foot in his mouth like good ol Gary did today? Did you buy one of his CH "Grey Scaled Calicos"...? Who wouldn't (within reason) answer emails, questions or phone calls if they think they have a chance at making a sell...Have you not seen his misrepresenting ad's? Why won't he even answer questions? I believe Tosha made a great point about his post...Everybody knows he peddles Ian G.'s stuff - Ian G. sells to the public so what he said in his response on KS is a lie...If JnJ is on your A+ List - Good Lord dude - I feel for ya...Look at the animals in his ads - That's what you consider A+? Look at the screen shot Bill posted...And this is a guy you stand up for? Just doesn't make sense too me....

Amen. :yessir:

If JnJ is on your A+ list, I don't think I want to see who else you do business with. I hope you QT real good, since any purchase from that jackass could wipe out your entire collection easily. As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't ever risk my animals by buying anything from that flipper scumbag. Man, JnJ on your A+ list.. I just can't get over considering someone with such horrible business practices and ethics as someone you would PREFER to buy from.

Larry

12-18-2008, 11:57 PM

lets keep the off topic talk in a different section so we don't muddy up good info..

JOHNS6068

12-19-2008, 12:01 AM

John, what I do is "snap" the area I want to keep. Then save it as a file on your computer. Then save it on photobucket and copy the IMG link and post it into your reply box. :yessir:

Thank-you!!!! I knew it was going to be that simple. Here I was looking at the actual program doing it all. So it's more of just a cutting tool and that's all... I got it now :)

Sorry Boss didn't see your post till I posted will do =)

Albey

12-20-2008, 10:04 AM

I was just doing my part in trying to educate the folks on Kingsnake about the evils of J&J in this post. It lasted for a while but when I checked later on it was gone. I guess it probably got nasty after awhile. http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images/icon_smile_tongue.gif

http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images/resell1.jpg

http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images/resell2.jpg

http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images/resell3.jpg

J&J’s Theme Song (http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images/flipper.mp3)

:machinegun:

I can’t believe no one clicked the link (J&J's Theme Song) in that post. Did it not work or something? OK here it is one more time.

Click Here (http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images/flipper.mp3)
.
.
.
.

Wild Bill

12-20-2008, 10:08 AM

anendeloflorien

12-20-2008, 11:33 AM

I can’t believe no one clicked the link (J&J's Theme Song) in that post. Did it not work or something? OK here it is one more time.

Click Here (http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images/flipper.mp3)
.
.
.
.

lol I just clicked it Albey thats some good stuff!

So question for the BLBC ppl Josh (from JNJ) contacted me on BP.net and offered to have me up to their facility to tour it and see what they do as far as QT, how their animals are brought in etc... Does anyone think that it might be worthwhile? It's a bit of a drive but we go up to ME quite often for my girlfriends uncles concerts and it would just basically be an extra hour or so on our trip.

Personally I think it could be interesting to see how a flipper handles their business.

luciddream

12-20-2008, 09:08 PM

norsmis

12-20-2008, 09:12 PM

Do it Adam! Take pics and notes and get back to us. I would be VERY interested in the Q techniques.... of course I am sure it will be a horse and pony show with lots of smoke and mirrors for you....

JOHNS6068

12-20-2008, 09:18 PM

jonf

12-20-2008, 09:42 PM

:lol::lol::lol: Albey That is awesome:yourock: we need to be able to stick that to some other threads as well

I was thinking the same thing myself.......! Maybe this could be the Watchdog theme song?? Kinda like Cops has "Bad Boys".........we'll have "Flipper"

JOHNS6068

12-20-2008, 09:53 PM

I was thinking the same thing myself.......! Maybe this could be the Watchdog theme song?? Kinda like Cops has "Bad Boys".........we'll have "Flipper"

Yeah exactly...Like once the group declares you a flipper or so..It's stuck to that thread to play when it is opened each time :lol:

KrazyBlood

12-21-2008, 05:06 AM

Wild Bill

12-21-2008, 10:11 AM

Not defending JnJ, but the date is way off. The dates are approx 2 years afterwards. So maybe he changed? Maybe not...:wamma:

He did not tell people the WHOLE truth. lol

PS just fyi and I dislike flippers too.

He lied about this stuff the whole time, nothing new. He's just like Ed Clark, lie till you get caught then deny,deny,deny.

12-21-2008, 10:34 AM

lol I just clicked it Albey thats some good stuff!

So question for the BLBC ppl Josh (from JNJ) contacted me on BP.net and offered to have me up to their facility to tour it and see what they do as far as QT, how their animals are brought in etc... Does anyone think that it might be worthwhile? It's a bit of a drive but we go up to ME quite often for my girlfriends uncles concerts and it would just basically be an extra hour or so on our trip.

Personally I think it could be interesting to see how a flipper handles their business.

Alan Belcher offered the same deal over on Fauna a while back...Ask JnJ why he only lurks here and won't post? Ask him about his misrepresenting ads? I heard he said he sales gravid WC imports because "If he didn't, someone else would"...I heard he said if people pay hundreds of dollors for misrepresented CH imports "It's OK - Their paying it"...Guys a real winner and I wouldn't care what his "facility" looked like...

Wild Bill

12-23-2008, 04:05 PM

Newest ad.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/wildbill_photos/jnjgravids.jpg

anendeloflorien

12-23-2008, 10:24 PM

Alan Belcher offered the same deal over on Fauna a while back...Ask JnJ why he only lurks here and won't post? Ask him about his misrepresenting ads? I heard he said he sales gravid WC imports because "If he didn't, someone else would"...I heard he said if people pay hundreds of dollors for misrepresented CH imports "It's OK - Their paying it"...Guys a real winner and I wouldn't care what his "facility" looked like...

Yeah it's true BT. I honestly have a hard time hating JnJ even though I completely disagree with their way of doing business. I'm not going to turn this into another flipper thread (I think most of us have gotten that out of our system and know where we stand) but I do actually like/get along with Josh from JnJ fairly well and I'd like to give him something along the lines of "the benefit of the doubt" especially regarding his QT and the way that animals in his facility are housed.
Plus IMO I think people could find it interesting to kind of see how it is behind enemy lines, so to speak. I'm not out to change anyones opinions, I know that mine are already pretty well set and I'm Bush League to the core man :D.

JChandler

12-23-2008, 10:51 PM

anendeloflorien

12-23-2008, 10:59 PM

How can you like the man but not the shady business practices? Seems it goes hand in hand...

Why is that? All I'm saying is I've dealt with him personally and I find him to be a smart guy who is interesting to talk to. I've brought up his business practices to him, it's something that we do disagree about but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try to understand his views as well as those of the people here. They may be almost polar opposites at times but there are more things that I've found (with him at least) we all have in common than you'd think.

Sputnik

12-23-2008, 11:05 PM

Yeah it's true BT. I honestly have a hard time hating JnJ even though I completely disagree with their way of doing business. I'm not going to turn this into another flipper thread (I think most of us have gotten that out of our system and know where we stand) but I do actually like/get along with Josh from JnJ fairly well and I'd like to give him something along the lines of "the benefit of the doubt" especially regarding his QT and the way that animals in his facility are housed.
Plus IMO I think people could find it interesting to kind of see how it is behind enemy lines, so to speak. I'm not out to change anyones opinions, I know that mine are already pretty well set and I'm Bush League to the core man :D.

No Bush Leaguer would bother trying or wanting to get along with a known scammer, that's just NOT bush league. Go look at those captive hatched normals on their site like "dark ball morph", where's the proof? Did they prove it out to give it that name? Of course not, but, it's called a morph.... they just slap names on things to make a $6 import normal look special to someone who doesn't know better.

They even have a FEMALE GHOSTLY FIRE HET SUPERSTRIPE TYPE.... all rolled into one, that's gotta be worth the $775 price?

They are good with the suggestive names, pastelish male? It's a drab normal.... kinda funny at the bottom of the page they have Normal ball pythons.... none available.... what a joke!

JChandler

12-23-2008, 11:08 PM

Why is that? All I'm saying is I've dealt with him personally and I find him to be a smart guy who is interesting to talk to. I've brought up his business practices to him, it's something that we do disagree about but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try to understand his views as well as those of the people here. They may be almost polar opposites at times but there are more things that I've found (with him at least) we all have in common than you'd think.

What do I have in common with him? What he has reptiles and so do I? I haven't sold garbage like him so that can't be it....I have deceived the public with so called morphs, etc...

I doubt he is out kicking orphans or beating puppies and kittens but his business sucks so in turn he sucks....it is what it is. You can be a hypocrite that is you choice.

anendeloflorien

12-23-2008, 11:15 PM

No Bush Leaguer would bother trying or wanting to get along with a known scammer, that's just NOT bush league. Go look at those captive hatched normals on their site like "dark ball morph", where's the proof? Did they prove it out to give it that name? Of course not, but, it's called a morph.... they just slap names on things to make a $6 import normal look special to someone who doesn't know better.

They even have a FEMALE GHOSTLY FIRE HET SUPERSTRIPE TYPE.... all rolled into one, that's gotta be worth the $775 price?

They are good with the suggestive names, pastelish male? It's a drab normal.... kinda funny at the bottom of the page they have Normal ball pythons.... none available.... what a joke!

Like I said we disagree on the way that they choose to run their business. Look, I've just never been the type, if someone is willing to talk about how and why they do things the way they do not to listen.

What do I have in common with him? What he has reptiles and so do I? I haven't sold garbage like him so that can't be it....I have deceived the public with so called morphs, etc...

I doubt he is out kicking orphans or beating puppies and kittens but his business sucks so in turn he sucks....it is what it is. You can be a hypocrite that is you choice.

Ok, well that's why I wasn't going to say anything in the first place. But that's just me. Part of me is that I'm not one to give up on a person. I've already made it clear that I won't be doing business with them but I can't help it that I don't just feel like I have to ingore someone who I find to be interesting when I see him or talk to him. That's my personality, you can agree or disagree with me it makes no difference in my book.

Sputnik

12-23-2008, 11:25 PM

Adam, if you want to talk to people about bps.... talk to someone who doesn't do the things they do.... talk to someone who knows what they are talking about.

Don't get misled by the type of people who sell gravid wc females, the practice is disgusting and the only people who partake in such a disgusting practice are those who are all about the money and don't so much as give a damn about the animals.... people like that are very willing to tell you what you want to hear and mislead you.

12-24-2008, 04:44 AM

There isn't anything I can add that Scott and Jeff haven't said already...The fact of the matter is Josh is a scammer...I don't deal with, hang out or talk too scammers...I don't find them interesting - I find them disgusting...But that's just me...

Tama

12-24-2008, 05:40 AM

Like I said we disagree on the way that they choose to run their business. Look, I've just never been the type, if someone is willing to talk about how and why they do things the way they do not to listen.

Ok, well that's why I wasn't going to say anything in the first place. But that's just me. Part of me is that I'm not one to give up on a person. I've already made it clear that I won't be doing business with them but I can't help it that I don't just feel like I have to ingore someone who I find to be interesting when I see him or talk to him. That's my personality, you can agree or disagree with me it makes no difference in my book.

As to your first paragraph -- he's a scammer so he'll sweet talk ya till the end.

As for the second paragraph --is he your brother, uncle, any kind of relation and that's why you won't 'give up on him' or are you buying from him still? Why would you care about him now that you know the truth?

JChandler

12-24-2008, 05:47 AM

Man you sound like he's dieing....I won't give up on you.

Guilty by association. Officer I swear I wasn't buying crack I was here trying to convince them they should give it up....

Tosha

12-24-2008, 01:18 PM

12-24-2008, 01:20 PM

AaronP

12-24-2008, 01:21 PM

I don't care if he's a flipper/importer/Circus Clown, he imports Gravid females and in my mind that is wrong on so many levels it isn't even funny.

JChandler

12-24-2008, 01:48 PM

I'm not sure how much good/interesting/true information you could get from Josh -- the guy just got into the whole snake thing a few years ago -- much more interesting people with a wealth of knowledge in this industry I'd rather chat with. Hell I'd rather chat with an honest newbie than a used car salesman trying to butter me up for a sale.

Not to mention he also tries to get people on us like McPain....you can thank JnJ for his presence here...

They aren't man enough to come here and have conversations so they send these so called 'bad boys' after us....LMFAO

Tama

12-24-2008, 02:57 PM

Not to mention he also tries to get people on us like McPain....you can thank JnJ for his presence here...

They aren't man enough to come here and have conversations so they send these so called 'bad boys' after us....LMFAO

Nice! Great people 'not to give up on' Adam. Best of luck with them.

JOHNS6068

12-24-2008, 05:10 PM

I don't care for JNJ for a number of reason's. The thing that gets me though. Is they won't even try and defend thier buisness in what it does. If what they are doing is not wrong in thier eye's. Then say something...to not say anything is as good as a guilty confession to me.

JNJ ain't the first to walk away when they are put in the spot light of thier wrong doings. These types who hide in the corners from the light of thier wrong doings. Are even lower to me then the flipper and scammers who have the guts to at least stand up and try and make a point as to why they do what they do.... even when it doesn't make sense at all or rambles on and on till we are all sick of them(lol) But I will give those guys credit for at least responding back. It's more then I can say for someone like JNJ!!!:machinegun:

BryonsBoas

12-24-2008, 07:15 PM

Yeah it's true BT. I honestly have a hard time hating JnJ even though I completely disagree with their way of doing business. I'm not going to turn this into another flipper thread (I think most of us have gotten that out of our system and know where we stand) but I do actually like/get along with Josh from JnJ fairly well and I'd like to give him something along the lines of "the benefit of the doubt" especially regarding his QT and the way that animals in his facility are housed.
Plus IMO I think people could find it interesting to kind of see how it is behind enemy lines, so to speak. I'm not out to change anyones opinions, I know that mine are already pretty well set and I'm Bush League to the core man :D.

Tell the guy who dropped hundreds of $$$ with JnJ and have Josh offer him a breedable sized female as part of the deal, which in turn killed everything she was in the box with. JnJ eventually admitted that they had her for just a few days ( if that ) and knew nothing about her.

Thanks to their QT practices, a hobbiest breeder is down for the count until his collection comes up positively clean.

Yeah , give Josh the benefit of the doubt.:rolleyes:

Sputnik

12-24-2008, 07:40 PM

Tell the guy who dropped hundreds of $$$ with JnJ and have Josh offer him a breedable sized female as part of the deal, which in turn killed everything she was in the box with. JnJ eventually admitted that they had her for just a few days ( if that ) and knew nothing about her.

Thanks to their QT practices, a hobbiest breeder is down for the count until his collection comes up positively clean.

Yeah , give Josh the benefit of the doubt.:rolleyes:

There's your reason to stay well clear.... no quarantine, flip flip flip.... cash cash cash!

Wild Bill

01-13-2009, 03:54 PM

Funny, J&J has a good guy certificate on fauna. So I decided to vote.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86672

luciddream

01-13-2009, 04:05 PM

Funny, J&J has a good guy certificate on fauna. So I decided to vote.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86672

It won't let me vote :(

Wild Bill

01-13-2009, 04:08 PM

It won't let me vote :(

hmmmmm, I thought anyone could vote. I wonder if it's for paid members only?

Sputnik

01-13-2009, 04:37 PM

hmmmmm, I thought anyone could vote. I wonder if it's for paid members only?

That could bring a little meaning to the term, Paid for vote!

janeothejungle

01-13-2009, 04:42 PM

Wild Bill

01-13-2009, 05:04 PM

I just started a new pissing match with J&J over on bp.net. I find myself getting very disturbed by how their influence has spread over there. Join in if you fancy a brawl over wc gravids.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82538

~Kat

You rock Kat!!! He won't be back, he didn't realize he was talking to someone who actually knows what she's talking about. :yourock:

janeothejungle

01-13-2009, 05:20 PM

You rock Kat!!! He won't be back, he didn't realize he was talking to someone who actually knows what she's talking about. :yourock:

I don't know, it seems like there has been a push lately over there to sugarcoat the idea of wc's. And that forum is just ripe with newbees for the picking...

~Kat

jasballs

01-13-2009, 07:24 PM

I just started a new pissing match with J&J over on bp.net. I find myself getting very disturbed by how their influence has spread over there. Join in if you fancy a brawl over wc gravids.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82538

~Kat

I'll be right there! OH, Wait I'm banned fo life... Guess I need to be a Piece of Shite to post there..:wamma::yessir:

janeothejungle

01-13-2009, 07:28 PM

I'll be right there! OH, Wait I'm banned fo life... Guess I need to be a Piece of Shite to post there..:wamma::yessir:

Thanks a lot, bro. Hey, I'm working on getting banned, it's just taking longer than expected.....

~Kat

Desert

01-13-2009, 08:24 PM

Sometime back, in a thread originally started about the trouble that Big Cheese incurred from the city of Ft Worth Texas, I wrote a factual, non-emotive, non-flame treatment of the rodent breeding industry explaining in detail the issues faced by breeders like Big Cheese. The post contained insightful information. The post was immediately removed, my guess was because of misplaced (read poor reading comprehension on the part of a moderator) cronyism. At that time I decided their environment was more politically encumbered than I care for.

I did however go have a read re the link above. I learned that exports actually "regulate" python populations in range countries. I've never heard that one before. Who'd have thunk it.

I also learned that Noah can still keep his customers' rapt attention (and funds directed his way) with colourful yarns and tall tales. I assume this is the same Noah that was involved in illegal giant tortoise shipments about 15 years ago. He now has pythons that we can "only dream of". I infer from this tidbit that the pythons are of much more value when sitting over there in Africa than here...:shrug:

rabernet

01-13-2009, 10:07 PM

I don't know, it seems like there has been a push lately over there to sugarcoat the idea of wc's.

~Kat

There has? By whom?

Sputnik

01-13-2009, 10:16 PM

There has? By whom?

The fact that JNJ fly a banner there and the fact they partake in what is considered by many a disgusting practice it makes it hard to understand why bp.net would allow them there?

I'd like to hear why

We are supposed to care about the animals, the hobby and where it is going, but if it's ok by bp.net then I see that as a very bad choice!

Tosha

01-13-2009, 10:24 PM

k-arbogast

01-13-2009, 10:25 PM

I don't know, it seems like there has been a push lately over there to sugarcoat the idea of wc's. And that forum is just ripe with newbees for the picking...

~Kat

I stopped posting over there because there a too many newbs that think they are herp experts after keeping a couple ball pythons for two years or so. I tried to share some of my 20 years of experience and got shut down over board politics. I won't post there any more which is no big deal, but it is sad to see the quality people leaving that site only to be replace by a relative novice in Josh. Then again with a board full of newbs, all he has to do is show them some morphs and they will follow like lemmings. I try to stay out of these types of threads but people like the folks at JnJ just make me cringe.

I am not a total anti-flipper person, but I do believe there is a big difference in those that do it well and those that do not.

JChandler

01-13-2009, 10:49 PM

Funny, J&J has a good guy certificate on fauna. So I decided to vote.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86672

Me to thanks for the link!

jasballs

01-13-2009, 10:57 PM

There has? By whom?

$$$$:cool:

jasballs

01-13-2009, 11:00 PM

Me to thanks for the link!

That thread is from 06'

JChandler

01-13-2009, 11:02 PM

That thread is from 06'

Yeah but it still let me vote....:machinegun:

jasballs

01-13-2009, 11:07 PM

Yeah but it still let me vote....:machinegun:

But he had the good guy cert 3 years ago. No reason to show them WE are douche bags because we dont like what they do. There is other ways of doing that haha..

01-13-2009, 11:12 PM

Thanks a lot, bro. Hey, I'm working on getting banned, it's just taking longer than expected.....

~Kat

:lol:...:yourock:

janeothejungle

01-13-2009, 11:14 PM

There has? By whom?

I was thinking along the lines of threads like this http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82036 in which the wind seems to blowing in one particular direction...... and then the newbies start to parrot the mis-info and on the circus goes....

~Kat

Wild Bill

01-13-2009, 11:52 PM

But he had the good guy cert 3 years ago. No reason to show them WE are douche bags because we dont like what they do. There is other ways of doing that haha..

Come on bro. That's the whole point of the Good Guy Certificate. It's a member voting program that allows you to tell other people if you think they are worthy of your business. I wouldn't by a damn thing from J&J and I'm not afraid to say it. :yessir:

Wild Bill

01-14-2009, 12:00 AM

I don't know, it seems like there has been a push lately over there to sugarcoat the idea of wc's. And that forum is just ripe with newbees for the picking...

~Kat

I just meant he won't be back to that thread. He has the Ed Clark syndrome, once proven wrong in a thread they disappear. :lol:

Desert

01-14-2009, 12:14 AM

I was thinking along the lines of threads like this http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82036 in which the wind seems to blowing in one particular direction...... and then the newbies start to parrot the mis-info and on the circus goes....
~Kat

Thanks for sharing this. This bp.net thread is absolutely fascinating reading. Particularly interesting is the Wysocki post on page five and its 'thankyous' that appear to nicely corroborate the parroting allegation.

Also interesting is the perspective voiced several times in that thread "But we DON'T have "more than enough captive breds available". That's why people continue to ship in imports."

I strongly disagree. I believe captive breeding could supply all legitimate demand, if given a chance. The reason "Bill Brant has 20k hatchlings waiting at his place for a Petco sale" is, price point. I'll say it again. Price Point.It is embarassing how Petco portrays themselves as a moral-minded company. As I've written here before, they do this with wild caught Russian tortoises also. Price Point.

JChandler

01-14-2009, 06:35 AM

But he had the good guy cert 3 years ago. No reason to show them WE are douche bags because we dont like what they do. There is other ways of doing that haha..

But you are allowed to delete your support of a good guy and change it to a bad guy vote so why not continue to bring things like that to light, what if someone goes there doesn't read the 400 post thread about them but looks at their certificate and says well they have nothing buy good guy votes so it can't be all bad if 17 people think they are good and only 2 think they are bad....anything and everything is worthwhile at times I hope.

01-14-2009, 10:44 AM

I stopped posting over there because there a too many newbs that think they are herp experts after keeping a couple ball pythons for two years or so. I tried to share some of my 20 years of experience and got shut down over board politics. I won't post there any more which is no big deal, but it is sad to see the quality people leaving that site only to be replace by a relative novice in Josh. Then again with a board full of newbs, all he has to do is show them some morphs and they will follow like lemmings. I try to stay out of these types of threads but people like the folks at JnJ just make me cringe.

I have my reasons but thats a pretty damn good post Kevin...

rabernet

01-14-2009, 11:58 AM

Wow, I don't even know where to begin. Please know that some of my response comes from a deeply personal place, and I probably should have thicker skin, but I care deeply about ball-pythons.net and it does smart to see people throw "you'll be another BP.net" to Larry and BT as if it's some horrible thing to be. Not every forum is going to cater to every single person - that's why we all have our own favorite forums to participate in. Is that a bad thing? If not, why is it thrown around like it is?

When I signed up here on the BLBC, it was to partipate as myself, not as a representative of ball-pythons.net, and I even received a PM from Larry thanking me for joining and how cool it was that I was supporting this site with my participation. I was excited about being a member here and sharing my animals, my season with those of you sharing yours.

Lately, I've participated very little except to read, because I don't really know how welcome I am here.

The fact that JNJ fly a banner there and the fact they partake in what is considered by many a disgusting practice it makes it hard to understand why bp.net would allow them there?

I'd like to hear why

We are supposed to care about the animals, the hobby and where it is going, but if it's ok by bp.net then I see that as a very bad choice!

None of us were aware of the WC policies of J&J when we accepted their ad banners. And since then, they have done nothing legally wrong in a business sense to justify pulling their ads before their contract with us is complete in February.

Tosha asks:

If it still holds true that the importation of gravid WC snakes is illegal -- then I would urge the administrators of BP.net not to continue to allow their site to be used to perpetuate the illegal activity.

Just a thought or at least a step in the right direction. :yessir:

I was not aware that the importation of WC gravids was illegal. Disgusting - YES, illegal, I can't find where that's stated - can you find that out for me, in that case, we would NOT allow his ad to continue to its expiration date.

I was thinking along the lines of threads like this http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=82036 in which the wind seems to blowing in one particular direction...... and then the newbies start to parrot the mis-info and on the circus goes....

~Kat

How does one thread with a handful of random BP.net members debating the merits of importing turn into a conscious act of will by BP.net to sugarcoat the importation of WC gravids???

If you (and that's anyone who is leaving bp.net for that reason, not just you specifically) are so offended by "newbies parroting misinformation" that you leave the site....who is going to educate those poor misinformed newbies when you bail in the face of a harmless debate???

SO, instead of allowing members to have a civil and reasonable debate on the merits of importing or WC gravids or whatever, we should do....what??? If too many members seem to sway the wrong direction we should lock the thread? Edit posts? Ban members???

I stopped posting over there because there a too many newbs that think they are herp experts after keeping a couple ball pythons for two years or so. I tried to share some of my 20 years of experience and got shut down over board politics. I won't post there any more which is no big deal, but it is sad to see the quality people leaving that site only to be replace by a relative novice in Josh. Then again with a board full of newbs, all he has to do is show them some morphs and they will follow like lemmings. I try to stay out of these types of threads but people like the folks at JnJ just make me cringe.

I am not a total anti-flipper person, but I do believe there is a big difference in those that do it well and those that do not.

Again, if you and other experienced members choose to leave because of all the newbies, who's going to be left to help them?

I don't remember where you were ever shut down, but my memory hasn't been that great lately. Feel free to point me to an example via PM or here if you'd like. I am sorry if you were made to feel that way.

$$$$:cool:

Like we're rolling in the dough over there :cool: and J&J slides us thousands of dollars under the table to keep their business in the spotlight? We've got a waiting list of A-name businesses wanting our banner slots as soon as one becomes available.

I have my reasons but thats a pretty damn good post Kevin...

Wow! Before you and Larry started this site, and when Reptile Radio was still relatively new, you and Larry both spoke about how much respect and admiration you had for BP.net. Gave us multiple shout outs at the end of the shows, etc. Even invited Judy on as a guest.

Was your respect so fragile that a courtesy PM to Judy or any of the admins asking for clarification on something that bothered you too much of a stretch? I honestly have no idea your reasons why you no longer partipate there, but I've even mentioned to Larry that I noticed you don't ever come there any longer. Larry still pops in from time to time.

Yes, I'm sad to see that BP.net no longer serves the needs of some of you, I just wish that you (the broad you) would come to us, either publically on BP.net or privately to ask about issues that concern you about us, rather than assuming you know what our motives are and just trash us on this forum.

I would love to continue to be a participating member here, but I'm not sure now just how welcome I am, since I represent a forum seemingly so disliked and disrespected by the membership here. :(

janeothejungle

01-14-2009, 12:22 PM

Lately, I've participated very little except to read, because I don't really know how welcome I am here.

Speaking for myself, you are of course welcome here as a valuable part of the community, but you have to take bp,et criticisms with a grain of salt. It's not personal against you.

None of us were aware of the WC policies of J&J when we accepted their ad banners. And since then, they have done nothing legally wrong in a business sense to justify pulling their ads before their contract with us is complete in February.

How does one thread with a handful of random BP.net members debating the merits of importing turn into a conscious act of will by BP.net to sugarcoat the importation of WC gravids???

Because here is the rub. By allowing business like J&J to advertise prominently on the site, you are essentially endorsing their authority. SO then when the nubes see postings by J&J (as a business) they are naturally going to lend more weight to that 'authority' than someone with joeblow09 as a handle. I'm not suggesting that BP.net endorses WC or doesn't. I'm stating that bp.net is a sum of it's community and that community is subject to misinfo and bad judgement, just like any other large group as more and more people just want to 'fit in' and be respected by that crowd.

If you (and that's anyone who is leaving bp.net for that reason, not just you specifically) are so offended by "newbies parroting misinformation" that you leave the site....who is going to educate those poor misinformed newbies when you bail in the face of a harmless debate???
This is a valid point, and if it were one or two threads every now and then, that'd be fine. But like someone else stated, there are an awful lot of nubes with very little common sense just posting opinions and muddying the waters on otherwise valid discussions. Hey, I haven't bailed, but I have skipped over several threads because quite frankly I get tired of trying to set straight every new young member trying to establish themselves as 'in the know'.

SO, instead of allowing members to have a civil and reasonable debate on the merits of importing or WC gravids or whatever, we should do....what??? Is it a reasonable debate if one of the parties is essentially lying to sway opinion in favor of his livelihood? To me, if you are establishing yourself as a business on forums such as bp.net, there should be a burden of proof as to how you conduct that business. If Josh was over there posting his INDIVIDUAL opinion under his own name, I have no issues with the site. But Supporting him (and those like him) is the same thing as promoting him, in my book.

but I'm not sure now just how welcome I am, since I represent a forum seemingly so disliked and disrespected by the membership here. :(

Ahhh. But I was under the impression that you are here of your own recognizance? NOT representing anyone but yourself. Which is cool. I have no beef with you personally, but as a contributing member of bp.net, I will also not pull my punches as to things I like/dislike about your employer.

Peace.
Kat

FloridaHogs

01-14-2009, 12:24 PM

I would love to continue to be a participating member here, but I'm not sure now just how welcome I am, since I represent a forum seemingly so disliked and disrespected by the membership here. :(

And there you go diong the same thing you accuse others of doing. So a few members are unhappy with BP.net, that does not mean you are "disliked and disrespected by the membership here." It means a few here are unhappy, not all. If you have problems with a few members, then address those members, as you have asked them to do to you. Please do NOT sterotyoe this entire forum membership, based the opinions of some.

And please quit the woe is me routine. If you want to participate here, then do. Not everybody is going to like everything you say on any forum. As long as you are honest in your personal dealings with people, then I will listen. I don't know if I like you or not Robin, because you have not given me the chance to know you, because you have chosen not to participate.

rabernet

01-14-2009, 12:27 PM

Speaking for myself, you are of course welcome here as a valuable part of the community, but you have to take bp,et criticisms with a grain of salt. It's not personal against you.

Because here is the rub. By allowing business like J&J to advertise prominently on the site, you are essentially endorsing their authority. SO then when the nubes see postings by J&J (as a business) they are naturally going to lend more weight to that 'authority' than someone with joeblow09 as a handle. I'm not suggesting that BP.net endorses WC or doesn't. I'm stating that bp.net is a sum of it's community and that community is subject to misinfo and bad judgement, just like any other large group as more and more people just want to 'fit in' and be respected by that crowd.

This is a valid point, and if it were one or two threads every now and then, that'd be fine. But like someone else stated, there are an awful lot of nubes with very little common sense just posting opinions and muddying the waters on otherwise valid discussions. Hey, I haven't bailed, but I have skipped over several threads because quite frankly I get tired of trying to set straight every new young member trying to establish themselves as 'in the know'.

Is it a reasonable debate if one of the parties is essentially lying to sway opinion in favor of his livelihood? To me, if you are establishing yourself as a business on forums such as bp.net, there should be a burden of proof as to how you conduct that business. If Josh was over there posting his INDIVIDUAL opinion under his own name, I have no issues with the site. But Supporting him (and those like him) is the same thing as promoting him, in my book.

Ahhh. But I was under the impression that you are here of your own recognizance? NOT representing anyone but yourself. Which is cool. I have no beef with you personally, but as a contributing member of bp.net, I will also not pull my punches as to things I like/dislike about your employer.

Peace.
Kat

Fair enough! Thank you for your feedback!:)

rabernet

01-14-2009, 12:30 PM

And there you go diong the same thing you accuse others of doing. So a few members are unhappy with BP.net, that does not mean you are "disliked and disrespected by the membership here." It means a few here are unhappy, not all. If you have problems with a few members, then address those members, as you have asked them to do to you. Please do NOT sterotyoe this entire forum membership, based the opinions of some.

And please quit the woe is me routine. If you want to participate here, then do. Not everybody is going to like everything you say on any forum. As long as you are honest in your personal dealings with people, then I will listen. I don't know if I like you or not Robin, because you have not given me the chance to know you, because you have chosen not to participate.

Jenea, you are correct - I did just do that, without even realizing that I was doing so.

I did acknowledge Please know that some of my response comes from a deeply personal place, and I probably should have thicker skin

I don't like the woe is me routine either, and I apologize. By the time I got to the end of my post, I was feeling rather raw and emotional and let my emotions get the best of me. For that, I apologize.

Wild Bill

01-14-2009, 12:44 PM

If it still holds true that the importation of gravid WC snakes is illegal -- then I would urge the administrators of BP.net not to continue to allow their site to be used to perpetuate the illegal activity.

Just a thought or at least a step in the right direction. :yessir:

From what I understand it's still illegal. Most importation documents don't state "gravid" and they usuaully aren't checked that close.

FloridaHogs

01-14-2009, 12:45 PM

No problem, just post more so we can get to know you seperate from BP.net. :D

k-arbogast

01-14-2009, 12:56 PM

I have my reasons but thats a pretty damn good post Kevin...

Thanks BT!

Robin, I have no personal beef with you I just think BP.net is becoming more like Kingsnake. I won't list specific threads, mainly because it is a waste of time, but on topics like Repster, LAWreptiles, and the spider wobble issue for example I tried to share some veteran experience only to be jumped on because it wasn't a popular opinion. The first two issues I was dead on right and the third is still up for debate. I don't mind opposing opinions but when they are driven by misinformation and loyalty( kissing up ) to certain breeders then there is no way to have a true debate about issues. Bottom line is I feel there are too many instances where even senior members wanted to have the blinders on and so I made a personal choice not to participate any more.

There is a difference between participating and being a member of a board and using that board as a marketing tool. I am a herper not a business mogel, and I love keeping and breeding snakes an sharing photos of them. That is why I participate here!