Has anyone ever heard of, or seen a cross between a Banana Cal King, and a Hypo Brooks King?
Is there a name for it?
Any pictures?

Can't say I have ever heard of such a cross. But most of the king breeders I know are pretty hard edge about not crossing sub species. Maybe John Lassiter or Doug Mong will check in, they know a much broader spectrum of breeders than I do.

Can't say I have ever heard of such a cross. But most of the king breeders I know are pretty hard edge about not crossing sub species. Maybe John Lassiter or Doug Mong will check in, they know a much broader spectrum of breeders than I do.

I was looking into doing the cross, is this something they would "frown" upon, or something I shouldn't try?

I think both. Each subspecies of kingsnake is beautiful. By breeding different subspecies the concern is they may confuse people into what it is and they will breed them and so on until it is hard to tell which are pure. So overall it can be detrimental in the future.

Dan

I was looking into doing the cross, is this something they would "frown" upon, or something I shouldn't try?

Doing it or not is a matter of personal preference and opinion about keeping lines as pure as possible.

The breeders I know and associate with have gone to great lengths to find and maintain their collections from the purest locality specimens they can acquire. I'm of this same opinion. You know what they say about opinions. We may line breed to highlight certain characteristics of these specimens. Hypo Brooksi and Banana Calis are two that come to mind. But still try to maintain the purity of the sub species and locality. Due to loss of habitat many of these locality specimens are at best difficult to find if they haven't already been extirpated in that locality. An excellent example of this is the Grease Kings of the L. g. californiae complex. These are found only in the oil fields in LA and are very unique in pattern/coloration. Their habitat is minimal at best and even in the last year a large area of this habitat is being further developed and soon there will be no wild specimens left. While these are from the same sub species as your banana kings the isolation of their habitat has led to the development of a unique phenotype. The same is true of your bananas.

There are others that are into designer morphs and have no objection to crossing whatever with whichever with the goal of coming up with something unique in pattern/coloration what have you. Some of them have been known to not only cross king/milk sub species but have also crossed kings/milks with corn snakes then bred these offspring back with other sub species of kings/milks. While this can make for some very interesting colors/patterns they probably would not breed true in any sense but would make great display only specimens or be used in further crosses to create other morphs.

The debate over this is ongoing and probably will never be resolved.

I think both. Each subspecies of kingsnake is beautiful. By breeding different subspecies the concern is they may confuse people into what it is and they will breed them and so on until it is hard to tell which are pure. So overall it can be detrimental in the future.

Dan

What Dan states here is a large part of this debate. While you may sell your offspring and state that these are crosses. The next person may breed these and since the offspring look more Brooksi of Banana may offer them for sale as one or the other thereby muddying the waters of what are pure locality specimens.

So the designer breeders will tell you to go ahead, breed them and see what you get, it could be cool. The purists are going to argue against this. So it comes back to my opening statement. Your snakes, your choice.

Other than being called a mutt there is no "name" for it.....There have been a few folks that have done that cross but I ask why? What is to gain from it other than producing something that can and will muddy the waters of pure lines.....

They are both getula and some hardcore hybridizers would call crossing them intergrades but their wild ranges are not close enough for intergration.....

The only thing I would ask anyone that wants to cross subspecies is........................PLEASE DON'T.
I know they are your snakes and you want to produce something from them but I would advise you to get some more breeders to pair them up with their own subspecies.

Thanks for the replies, but I have not decided what I am going to do, chances are I will just go to the next expo or hit up one of my local breeders and pick me up a Brooksi, and a Cal King, and continue the line breeding process of the Banana Cal King.

That sounds like your best bet. You can also selectively breed to make something better whether its more/less color, pattern, hue, etc.

Dan

That sounds like your best bet. You can also selectively breed to make something better whether its more/less color, pattern, hue, etc.

Dan

Yeah, I actually looked into it, and BHB has a really reduced pattern Banana Cal King, I may start my line breeding there.

Good answers you guys! :yes:






~Doug