I use the big morter tubs for my rats I just thought a good thread would be to ask everyone how they breed there rodents? What is your group ratio and also your brooding ratio. I personally think prego females do better if seperated with there own litter. Just wondering what works for you?

We separate out each female now until I have the room for the racks, then it will be trios probably.

Haven't done rats yet, just mice. They are in big colonies

ASF's in mostly trios in 10 gallon fish tanks (Minus the water) with a wire screen lid... wire food basket and bottle holder.

4ft fish tanks for raising the feeders en mass in...

Mice in 56 qrt tubs.... 30 or 40 in each. Usually start out with 8 per tub.

Jeff pretty much covered it. I just tried for the first time having two prego moms in the same cage for birthing and nursing so far so good. We do keep ASF and I have two colonies going -- I don't separate out ASF rats ever. We also have a colony of mice.

I run 1.4 rats in the mortar tubs. When I can, I separate out the moms. I run 1.4 on the mice & ASF too and have had success separating the ASF and putting them back together.

I do 1.4 rats in mortar tubs...I do 1.5 mice in small cat litter pans - Don't separate anybody...Gave up the ASF's - Mean little bastards...

1.5 mice in those lab bins. They measure like 22" x 16"

I do 1.3 in the mortar tubs for rats with no separating and 1.4 mice in the medium litter pans. I guess separating would give you more rats in the long run because instead of me only having 36 females I could have around 50 because they would be rotating around the racks.

My mice stay together all the time, 1.5 in large cat litter pans.
The ASF stay together too, in the same pans.

With the rats I run 1.4 in mortar tubs and pull the prego females to a birthing rack of cat litter pans to let them raise the young on their own.
Separating the rats I have found increases the survival rate of the babies a little bit, but more importantly it increases overall production. When a prego female is pulled a ready to breed female replaces her. The breeding racks stay at capacity all the time while all the prego females are by themselves. This just keeps the maximum number of receptive females being exposed to males while at the same time keeping the maximum number of litters on the ground, instead of having a nursing mom and her litter taking up space in the breeding tub.
All the moving of females only happens once per week at cleaning time when the females are rotated through the system, so it isn't any extra work to separate them.

I keep 1.4 rats in the tubs and don't pull the females, but I like your logic so I may start.

Quig

I do 1.3 in mortar tubs, no separating. I'd like to try pulling the pregnant girls some time this year, gotta build more racks first.

I do 1.4 rats in mortar tubs...I do 1.5 mice in small cat litter pans - Don't separate anybody...Gave up the ASF's - Mean little bastards...

You let them drop there babies and raise them in the mortar tub?

I was thinking about going to that.

My mice stay together all the time, 1.5 in large cat litter pans.
The ASF stay together too, in the same pans.

With the rats I run 1.4 in mortar tubs and pull the prego females to a birthing rack of cat litter pans to let them raise the young on their own.
Separating the rats I have found increases the survival rate of the babies a little bit, but more importantly it increases overall production. When a prego female is pulled a ready to breed female replaces her. The breeding racks stay at capacity all the time while all the prego females are by themselves. This just keeps the maximum number of receptive females being exposed to males while at the same time keeping the maximum number of litters on the ground, instead of having a nursing mom and her litter taking up space in the breeding tub.
All the moving of females only happens once per week at cleaning time when the females are rotated through the system, so it isn't any extra work to separate them.


Thats what I do right now I am trying to get another rack built with a smaller tub to house single females.

I think I may have to do a 1.4 and let them drop them in the tub until I can get the other rack built?

Thats what I do right now I am trying to get another rack built with a smaller tub to house single females.

I think I may have to do a 1.4 and let them drop them in the tub until I can get the other rack built?

A lot of people do it that way, and you may find it works just fine for you.
In my case though when I pull the females to give birth by themselves, I very rarely find any dead pinks. Sometimes I miss a female and she end up delivering in the mortar tub. The other females usually try to pile on her nest, likely out of maternal instinct, but unless I notice it sooner, after a few days I commonly find a couple of the babies dead in the nest. Not eaten, just dead. My assumption is they were smothered or trampled by the four females all trying to tend to the nest at once.
The more important factor for me though is the increase in overall production by being able to keep more females pregnant or nursing at one time.

A lot of people do it that way, and you may find it works just fine for you.
In my case though when I pull the females to give birth by themselves, I very rarely find any dead pinks. Sometimes I miss a female and she end up delivering in the mortar tub. The other females usually try to pile on her nest, likely out of maternal instinct, but unless I notice it sooner, after a few days I commonly find a couple of the babies dead in the nest. Not eaten, just dead. My assumption is they were smothered or trampled by the four females all trying to tend to the nest at once.
The more important factor for me though is the increase in overall production by being able to keep more females pregnant or nursing at one time.

Exactly! You hit it right on the head!

NOW for the $100 question that I have searched for about a month now.

What tub are you using to house your female single? Also where are you buying them and how much are they?

I use the large Van Ness cat litter pans (CP2), and they are in a rack like this one:
http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/rat_rack2/birthing_rack.shtml

You can get the pans at Wal-Mart or similar stores, but they are $4-5 each.
You can get them wholesale if you're buying in bulk. Last time I called Van Ness directly, they required a minimum 100 tub order. They did however direct me to one of their wholesale distributors that I ordered a 50 lot from.
After that when I need a replacement tub once in a while I just grab one locally.

It's been several years since I first set mine up, and I do not remember which wholesaler I got them from or what the price was but it was significantly cheaper.
As long as you explain you are a reptile breeder and are needing the pans for your rodent breeding operation you can buy them wholesale without the normally required Tax ID number. The number is required if you are buying them to resell though.

Here's the deal with catpans--
There are two main manufacturers, one being Van Ness plastics and the other being Doskocil Manufacturing. ( Dockocil markets their pans as Petmate brand)

Van Ness manufactures their catpans with food grade plastic, Dockocil does not; Dockocil has their own plastic recycling plant and recycled plastic comprises a percentage of their pans ingredients.

Here is the important part- Though Doskocil uses recycled and non food grade plastic, their pan is much better made than Van Ness's pan. Van Ness's pan is flimsy compared to Doskocil's pan. Dockocil pans are thicker, better reinforced and substantially stronger. Therefore my opinion is they are a better choice for the garage rodent breeder.

Cat pans that is my choice that I went with. Do you have any problems of them chewing out of this tub? I know the moms seem to chew less when they are brooding instead of breeding.

Cat pans that is my choice that I went with. Do you have any problems of them chewing out of this tub? I know the moms seem to chew less when they are brooding instead of breeding.

Bottom line is, as I've alluded to elswhere here, there are no shortcuts just trade offs. In this instance, the trade-off is we save start up costs by using cat or mortar pans and wire above them at an arbitrary height that forces other arbitrary conditions, such as bedding depth and access to the water emitter, and group nursing, and on and on.. Sometimes rats will drill these tubs and sometimes they won't. The reality is, the rats can easily drill them if they set their mind too it, thus the reality of that reality is, we've got a setup where the rats can escape, if they decide to. The rats have to want to remain there.. Sometimes it happens often enough to drive the keeper crazy. But, catpans/mortar tubs are cheap; simply replace them.

I've seen situations where rats drill tubs, escape and later chew into waterlines when they are thirsty. Any decent sized ratroom, no matter what equipment is used, should have a bb air rifle handy as standard equipment and a zero tolerance policy for escapees that have escaped, no matter the reason for escaping.

Myself, I use all polycarbonate laboratory caging. It cost a fortune, but funny thing is, I've learned that in the long run, good equipment investment is actually cheaper and less time consumming than trying to reinvent the wheel and dealing with all the subsequent trade-offs for the life of the project. It is better for the animals also.

I agree. I have an escape out now who is eluding my traps.

My mice stay together all the time, 1.5 in large cat litter pans.
The ASF stay together too, in the same pans.

With the rats I run 1.4 in mortar tubs and pull the prego females to a birthing rack of cat litter pans to let them raise the young on their own.
Separating the rats I have found increases the survival rate of the babies a little bit, but more importantly it increases overall production. When a prego female is pulled a ready to breed female replaces her. The breeding racks stay at capacity all the time while all the prego females are by themselves. This just keeps the maximum number of receptive females being exposed to males while at the same time keeping the maximum number of litters on the ground, instead of having a nursing mom and her litter taking up space in the breeding tub.
All the moving of females only happens once per week at cleaning time when the females are rotated through the system, so it isn't any extra work to separate them.
Exactly how we do... I won't have it any other way. ;)

Bottom line is, as I've alluded to elswhere here, there are no shortcuts just trade offs. In this instance, the trade-off is we save start up costs by using cat or mortar pans and wire above them at an arbitrary height that forces other arbitrary conditions, such as bedding depth and access to the water emitter, and group nursing, and on and on.. Sometimes rats will drill these tubs and sometimes they won't. The reality is, the rats can easily drill them if they set their mind too it, thus the reality of that reality is, we've got a setup where the rats can escape, if they decide to. The rats have to want to remain there.. Sometimes it happens often enough to drive the keeper crazy. But, catpans/mortar tubs are cheap; simply replace them.

I've seen situations where rats drill tubs, escape and later chew into waterlines when they are thirsty. Any decent sized ratroom, no matter what equipment is used, should have a bb air rifle handy as standard equipment and a zero tolerance policy for escapees that have escaped, no matter the reason for escaping.

Myself, I use all polycarbonate laboratory caging. It cost a fortune, but funny thing is, I've learned that in the long run, good equipment investment is actually cheaper and less time consumming than trying to reinvent the wheel and dealing with all the subsequent trade-offs for the life of the project. It is better for the animals also.
These pans your referring to, know where they sell them by chance?

I came across some really nice cat pans at tractor supply, thicker and bigger like you describe, for I think about the same price as the large van ness litter pans. Unfortunately I found them just this past summer, but if I were to make a new rack, say for the ASFs, I'd go with those.