[Disclaimer: I know this is the Bush League Breeders Club but I feel that this message should be shared with all herpers, and I believe it is sound advice]

You know I've had numerous conversations with numerous people about breeding, the market, where it is now and where it may be in a couple years and I say more often then I care to admit that too many people are getting into this hobby for the wrong reasons, or aren't responsible about their breeding practices.

It almost upsets me when someone who's had snakes for less than year and has only 1 or two snakes starts talking about their "Breeding plans". Why do you have to breed your animals? Why can't you just be content owning that Spider, or that Pastel? When I started to look into breeding snakes a good friend of mine, who taught me a lot about ball pythons, told me that if you want a particular animal, then save your money and just buy it, in the end you may actually save a few dollars and you won't have to deal with what comes with breeding snakes [Breeding, Incubation, Hatchlings, feeding the hatchlings, etc.]

I guess my point is, don't breed your animals just cause you can. If you really want that Bumble Bee, Albino, or Clown, just buy it. And don't let the excitement of potentially (Yes Potentially!) hatching snakes get to your head, it's a lot of work taking care of more than a few ball pythons, just ask anyone here who has 10+ Snakes...myself included.

Its just how it is. Most of the people I know that just started to breed have had the intention of breeding when they get their first morph. Be it a het albino male or a lavender albino, they look at how much money they spent on it and how much more it was than a normal( and looks) and see how " Easy( the breeders make it look)" to breed. The thing with 1-2 snakes is how quickly it turns into 10+ and then they want to make their money back. I think that about 95% of people who have more than one of the same animal always have breeding in the back of their mind. Be it for money, experience, or just to have more snakes the prospect looks really fun.

Also look at the prices of ball pythons. Not everyone can afford a lavender albino pied hypo caramel black pastel spider, and they have to start somewhere. But what does upset me is when they do have 2 or 3 morphs, and those mores are dirt ugly and horrible quality. - Matt

haha ya now stop your crying its gonna be ok you might be able to turn a profit when you make hets and stuff. ha lmfao

Its just how it is.
See that is the mentality I don't like. People buy expensive cats and dogs everyday, most people don't breed that animal. And you mention Lavender albinos and what not. I want a Savannah cat. [Click here for Google Results] (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=NCK&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Savannah+Cat&spell=1) Savannah's are $6,000 cats, that is an expensive cat! But do I intend to breed it? Hell freaking no! People need to stop looking into these animals as investments and need to realize that these are just pets. "Breeder" animals mean nothing to your average Joe, and unfortunately part of the fate of our industry as a whole depends on Joe.

And again, if you really want that Ridiculous Morph, save for up for it and buy it, and if you aren't willing to do that then maybe you shouldn't own it in the first place.

Kinda funny you who you mention breeding expensive dogs to... Also, dogs take up ALOT of space, time, and take alot more care than snakes.

I breed because I love the satisfaction of seeing something hatch and knowing that I played a vital role in bringing these animals into the world. I dont think everyone should breed but its a choice they have the right to make. Just like everyone else.

I breed because I love the satisfaction of seeing something hatch and knowing that I played a vital role in bringing these animals into the world. I dont think everyone should breed but its a choice they have the right to make. Just like everyone else.

And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as you're responsible for your animals.

I'm not discouraging people from Breeding, that'd be hypocritical of me. I simply ask people to think twice before breeding needlessly.

Kinda funny you who you mention breeding expensive dogs to... Also, dogs take up ALOT of space, time, and take alot more care than snakes.

I didn't say it was easier, I'm saying just because you can, does not mean you should.

I agree with Aaron.

Many people who end up with a pair of any species just automatically assume 'well, I suppose I better breed them and make some money.".....Who says?

The only issue I have with what you suggest is that your telling people to but the morph they want instead of making it themselves but someone still has to breed it. That is an unrealistic approach to what your saying is an issue.

I hear what you are saying, although it is a bit like preaching to the choir here. I have seen some ugly ass bees that were produced just so they could be sold as bumbles. Were they selectively bred? No. I tend to look at breeders as either being serious (those that selectively breed) or being hobbyists (breed without any clear idea of what they are doing). I think quite a bit of the latter in this hobby is due to the dollar signs people see when they just start to get into it. I posted in another thread about hearing a guy who had just bought a burm that it was a 'live bearer' so breeding would be easy to do in a year. I wish I could say that was an isolated incident.

For my part, I think you just do what you can to educate people and you throw your money at projects and people that support your ideals. Until the hobby finds a way to regulate itself, that is pretty much all you can do.

my .02

cheers,
Kat

The only issue I have with what you suggest is that your telling people to but the morph they want instead of making it themselves but someone still has to breed it. That is an unrealistic approach to what your saying is an issue.

Not true, I am not discouraging breeding. I am discouraging breeding needlessly. If you'd rather breed Het albinos to produce your first albino then more power to you, I hope you get it on the first shot! However I am against the concept that because you have a morph that you should breed it, just because you can. I am all for Responsible Breeding and I will fight for everyone's right to breed.

I am against the concept that because you have a morph that you should breed it, just because you can.

I disagree 100% with that particular statement, I think you should take that morph and selectively breed it to make it better.

Not everyone out there wants or has the ability to breed, some will some will never...hell I saw an ad in the local paper the other day for regular cats...not a specific breed just normal run of the mill cats that some jackass was trying to sell for $50 a piece.

What should be preached is selective breeding and live by example of that, command your higher price because you do.

I disagree 100% with that particular statement, I think you should take that morph and selectively breed it to make it better.

Just because you can? Or because you want to make a better example of the morph in question? Breeding because you can and Breeding to make a better example of a morph are 2 separate things.

Just like you said in your first post...this is the Bush League BREEDERS club. I dont think the people that breed that are on this site breed there animals because they feel they have to. They WANT to. This post is probably better suited to some other forum.

Just because you can? Or because you want to make a better example of the morph in question? Breeding because you can and Breeding to make a better example of a morph are 2 separate things.

Like I said not everyone will, most will try but won't actually stick it through to the end so to me you have to take a stance on selective breeding from the start. At least then you can try to show them the difference between getting something solely to say you have the genes and getting something that is just spectacular. To me you have to go into with the idea that everyone is going to breed, period. That is what happened with certain things going mainstream, people being sold into the idea that they can make money and breeding is sooooo easy, better to be the one that promotes proper selective breeding instead of trying to tell people they shouldn't do it just because they can.

Me personally I am a father of teenage girls so I am going to be poor from here on out for the next 10 years or so but you can believe that when I do make a purchase it will be for quality only, none of this run of the mill crap, not worth my time and money.

Just like you said in your first post...this is the Bush League BREEDERS club. I dont think the people that breed that are on this site breed there animals because they feel they have to. They WANT to. This post is probably better suited to some other forum.

I agree completely with Noah.

While this message does need to be heard, it's not the people here on the BLBC. It's the people that post on ks asking if their female is gravid, asking what they get when they throw their het albino male they just bought in with their normal...... This site is filled with the most knowledgeable reptile owners out there. This site specifically there for the people that AREN'T in it for the money...remember the slogan? No wannabe superstars?

I, for one, want a killer bee axanthic (amongst about a thousand other snakes out there). Now, that would cost me....well, way more than I can afford right now or in the near future. But I do know that I can make my own someday. It may take years upon years, but I can. In the meantime I can slowly build up a small collection of very high quality snakes. I'm not planning on making any money off of this, hell, I'll probably end up holding back or trading my offspring for more snakes.

Why are you encouraging people not to breed? Is it because you think most people aren't suited to breeding? Tell me, are you planning on breeding your snakes? Why do you think you should be able to breed while telling everyone else they shouldn't? That may not be the message you're trying to convey, but that's what it sounded like.

Half of the fun and value in keeping these snakes is the ability to breed them and create something new and amazing. Yeah, it gets frustrating having to see so many ugly pastels, but without the ability to produce something in the end, I'm sure the majority of us would lose interest in these snakes. There's something to be said for spending years raising up these animals, building racks, cleaning poop, and finally being able to watch your prized offspring enter the world for the first time. Without that tantalizing climax that is the culmination of years of hard work the ball python industry would be....nothing.

Like I said in my first post, I understand what kind of forum this is, sometimes the obvious needs to be said out loud.

And sometimes its better to tell the people who are doing what it is you have a problem with than a group of people who are in this because they like what there doing not because they feel they should. Your not reaching your demographic here.

Like I said in my first post, I understand what kind of forum this is, sometimes the obvious needs to be said out loud.

What is obvious? That is your take on a particular thought that you had, but it doesn't make it obvious at all.

The thing that gets me is why would you not assume that every single animal you produce is going to be bred? Until some one figures out a safe and effective way to sterilize snakes and lizards you have no choice but to think that.

Like I said in my first post, I understand what kind of forum this is, sometimes the obvious needs to be said out loud.

And sometimes it doesn't and I believe that is the case here.... I think it might fit bp.net better where there are a good number of people jumping into breeding for the wrong reasons. Still, there is nothing more exciting about hatching out stuff for the first time.... and I wouldn't want to deny people that.

Who's your beef with Aaron?? It sounds like your trying to reach a member or members here.. Who is it your trying to reach with your message of don't breed..

Alan

Who's your beef with Aaron?? It sounds like your trying to reach a member or members here.. Who is it your trying to reach with your message of don't breed..

Alan

No one in particular. I don't feel it's necessary to say that what I have to say shouldn't be said here, it isn't like everyone who reads this forum is a active poster/breeder and honestly, I don't appreciate people attempting to twist my words and trying to make it look like I'm trying to tell people what to do. I could give a crap what people do with their animals but that doesn't mean I won't say something. If not only to say that I did say something.

Oh and Sputnik, FYI, I posted this on BP.net first. I figured I'd put it here as well, reach a larger audience.

Well that was the vibe I was getting from your posts.. How long have you been in the hobby??

Alan

No one in particular. I don't feel it's necessary to say that what I have to say shouldn't be said here, it isn't like everyone who reads this forum is a active poster/breeder and honestly, I don't appreciate people attempting to twist my words and trying to make it look like I'm trying to tell people what to do.

"I guess my point is, don't breed your animals just cause you can. If you really want that Bumble Bee, Albino, or Clown, just buy it. And don't let the excitement of potentially (Yes Potentially!) hatching snakes get to your head, it's a lot of work taking care of more than a few ball pythons, just ask anyone here who has 10+ Snakes...myself included."

No one is twisting your words. Look at what you have said above. "Dont bred you animals just because you can." Thats telling people what to do. You feel its necessary to say what you said here and the majority of responders dont.

Well that was the vibe I was getting from your posts.. How long have you been in the hobby??

Alan

I've kept Ball Pythons since I was 15 years old, or 2002. I started with a Tick Covered, Non-Eating yearling ball python I got from Petco. Took me 6 months to get the damn thing to eat then 6 months later the damn thing escaped! I got another ball python a little while later and it too was WC and I got it at a show here in Gwinnett County, GA. It ate and I kept it till Mid-2007 when I moved to VA, I couldn't keep snakes in my apartment so I had give it to a friend.

I moved to a different apartment complex in early 2008 and got back into snakes 10 fold. Have I bred snakes? No, do I intend to? Yes. That's my background in a nutshell.

I'm not telling people not to breed, just to the smaller guys just suggesting to seriously think about it before you start breeding that's all. Considering those are the people who could be crashing the market this year I'd figure I'd get a little more backup then what I have. If you want to take what I said personal then I don't know what to tell you, because I'm just giving general advice, and frankly I think some people are looking for a fight.

I'm not looking for a fight?? I'm trying to see where your coming from.. You know?? The market is what it is.. I don't even think about the market!! I just want to make some bad ass snakes, if I gotta keep'em all thats cool with me.. I'll just build more racks and up my rodent production.. Is that where all this came from. People that may potentially market crash.. I'd worry more about the people doing it now than people that may do it if they breed??

Alan

I'm not telling people not to breed, just to the smaller guys just suggesting to seriously think about it before you start breeding that's all. Considering those are the people who could be crashing the market this year I'd figure I'd get a little more backup then what I have. If you want to take what I said personal then I don't know what to tell you, because I'm just giving general advice, and frankly I think some people are looking for a fight.

I think people just disagreed with what you posted, not looking for a fight, if they were you'd know it.

If you had of posted this above statement you made to start with then it would of come across a lot better then what you did post imo. Some people will be market crashers not matter what their level of experience.

I'm not looking for a fight?? I'm trying to see where your coming from.. You know?? The market is what it is.. I don't even think about the market!! I just want to make some bad ass snakes, if I gotta keep'em all thats cool with me.. I'll just build more racks and up my rodent production.. Is that where all this came from. People that may potentially market crash.. I'd worry more about the people doing it now than people that may do it if they breed??

Alan

I wasn't referring to you Alan, I saw where you were coming from.

I think people just disagreed with what you posted, not looking for a fight, if they were you'd know it.

If you had of posted this above statement you made to start with then it would of come across a lot better then what you did post imo.

Well, I can't edit my old posts or I would have re-worded it better to match this forum, I figured that my 'disclaimer' at the start of it would be enough but obviously not. I don't care to make enemies or piss anyone off here, or tell anyone what to do, hell I have a tattoo on my spine that says "Live out of Spite" so clearly that isn't how I roll. But I figured I'd share what I thought was sound advice, nothing more, nothing less.

I guess my biggest problem is that it is unclear WHY you are encouraging people not to breed ball pythons. I have my own personal issues with people just jumping into breeding only to find themselves bored with it within a couple years, but what are you trying to say? Is it just too much work? Are you just annoyed with newbies? Are there way too many ball pythons and you're worried about the price dropping?

What you may think is sound advice actually came across as condescending. And again, if you're planning on breeding, how can you honestly tell people that they shouldn't do the same?

High and mighty Aaron has spoken...LMFAO

Give it a break we are all grown men and women here, if you want a conversation about a topic then we can have that but in order to do it I think you need to rewrite your entire first post and put up multiple angles and ideas you won't get your feelings hurt by our answers about being told to do something because you The Great Aaron. Everyone has different opinions about everything, we are not all cut from the same cookie cutter, we all have different filters that we run stuff through based on our lives.

How do you propose not allowing people to breed with this campaign of snake abstinence that your preaching? Should someone make it a law that you need to get a permit to breed you snake?

Seriously I am looking for an answer on these since that is your stance on the topic, public peer pressure is not an acceptable answer since the public isn't the same across the board, you can take 20 reptile people and the closet thing that each one has in common is a cold blooded pet, not even the same species.

I wasn't referring to you Alan, I saw where you were coming from.

But you said it quoting Alan.

It almost upsets me when someone who's had snakes for less than year and has only 1 or two snakes starts talking about their "Breeding plans".

What I think is that everyone has to start. And if those two snakes they have are fantastic examples of the morph then Id want them to breed. What I can understand you saying is that if a person just got an ugly pastel, and a ugly spider, have less than idea posts which make you think " Should this person even own these snakes?" Is when I get anoyed. One word I hate more than any other word I see out there is the word "plan" I cant STAND when someone with a smaller collection gos, " Yeah, by the end of the year I plan to pick up some blah blah blah and make some bleh bleh bleh and make the money back that I bought them for,maybe a little more, because that (load of crap) is all im asking for." Ive seen noobs say that about 1000 times, and im thinking, you just said your in it for the money! I think a better way of saying what you just said is it upsets me when people with little experience under their belts with ball pythons in general not to mention on how to breed with less than quality morphs starts to talk about plans of making money.

Why do you have to breed your animals? Why can't you just be content owning that Spider, or that Pastel?

They look at that spider... they look at that pastel... and then they look at the almighty Bee. Whats going through their minds is why spend five paychecks from mowing lawns when i can buy these two snakes for almost nothing, and have the chance to make more than one! Maybe all they want to do is make a bee, and then stop breeding. Maybe after they get their mind set they will start getting more balls. All breeders started somewhere. And if these people have what it takes and know their stuff whos to stop them. Im not going to get into the fact that its not cheap to get everything you need once its been started but the idea of hatching eggs can excite and new snake owner.

I guess my point is, don't breed your animals just cause you can. If you really want that Bumble Bee, Albino, or Clown, just buy it.

lol Aaron speaking of buying your animals...
I would love to have a Black Platinum. But not only are they rare but cost in the range of $5000 for a nice male. When I started to think about breeding I just wanted it to go smoothly and I took it slow, so I had only my lesser for almost a year and then I saw the mighty Black Platty... so right away I decided that's what I wanted and you have seen for yourself Black pastel female. I agree that Bees and albinos are much more affordable, but if right now you wanted a pastel orange ghost and an adult pair of a lesser het ghost and a pastel orange ghost came up lower than a POG it would be on the back of your mind, especially if you do not have a lot of money to spend. I see where you are coming from but everyone has a different reason WHY they want to breed to get something, or more of something be it for money or love.

I guess my point is, don't breed your animals just cause you can. If you really want that Bumble Bee, Albino, or Clown, just buy it. And don't let the excitement of potentially (Yes Potentially!) hatching snakes get to your head, it's a lot of work taking care of more than a few ball pythons, just ask anyone here who has 10+ Snakes...myself included

Again I really do not think its a "because I can' kind of this. And I agree if would be better if you can afford the morph you want right off the bat. But the fact is most cant. By the time you have a pair of something I think that breeding is already locked into most's brains. AND... I wouldn't ask just any body who's been breeding for ten years... Id ask someone like Larry or Adam.

That is all I am going say here, because that is exactly what I think.:machinegun:

Yea I'm just going to not pay attention to this thread anymore, this is getting ridiculous. People are clearly taking what I said out of context and are reading between lines that are not there.

The point of this whole damn thread: Be a responsible owner. That is all, you have a problem with that? You can seriously **** off.

Yea I'm just going to not pay attention to this thread anymore, this is getting ridiculous. People are clearly taking what I said out of context and are reading between lines that are not there.

The point of this whole damn thread: Be a responsible owner. That is all, you have a problem with that? You can seriously **** off.

Someones getting a little touchy...

I guess my point is, don't breed your animals just cause you can. If you really want that Bumble Bee, Albino, or Clown, just buy it. And don't let the excitement of potentially (Yes Potentially!) hatching snakes get to your head, it's a lot of work taking care of more than a few ball pythons, just ask anyone here who has 10+ Snakes...myself included.

The problem people have is that above statement comes across as telling people what to do.... you may or may not of implied that, but that's how it reads. I'm obviously not the only person that feels that way.

Fact is the reason why most people have those animals is to breed them. Not just sit and stare at them, you can appreciate the animals and enjoy the whole breeding experience as well.

It's also not realistic being as Matt pointed out, for some people to just go out and lay down several thousand dollars on a clown when they can save a lot on getting hets, or get a pastel and a spider for far less then a bee for example.... times are tough. And nothing beats hatching your own stuff out!

No one in particular. I don't feel it's necessary to say that what I have to say shouldn't be said here, it isn't like everyone who reads this forum is a active poster/breeder and honestly, I don't appreciate people attempting to twist my words and trying to make it look like I'm trying to tell people what to do. I could give a crap what people do with their animals but that doesn't mean I won't say something.


You don't give a crap what people do with their animals, then why start this thread at all? You tell people to be responsible, but then you don't care... makes no sense.

Yea I'm just going to not pay attention to this thread anymore, this is getting ridiculous. People are clearly taking what I said out of context and are reading between lines that are not there.

The point of this whole damn thread: Be a responsible owner. That is all, you have a problem with that? You can seriously **** off.

When you start a thread with the potential of a hot topic, be prepared for conversations to get a little heated, be prepared to stick it out, not turn and run because people are not agreeing with your mixed messages.... I have had heated conversations with members here, but we keep it to topic and I don't have a problem with those people.... it's just a differing of opinion. The whole F' off comment just comes across as you can't handle the heat. I don't have a problem with you, just the message content of the thread, but I'm not going to stoop to F'off comments because it's not rolling my way....

The whole problem here seems to be that your message is very wishy washy. Your telling people to be responsible and then that you don't give a crap what people do with their animals, it don't get much more contradictory then that. Not well written at all and some people took offense to that opening statement that read as "I'm telling you what to do," I know you said it wasn't meant to sound that way, but that's how it came off....

Good post Scott

Excellent post Sput!:yessir:

The whole problem here seems to be that your message is very wishy washy. Your telling people to be responsible and then that you don't give a crap what people do with their animals, it don't get much more contradictory then that. Not well written at all and some people took offense to that opening statement that read as "I'm telling you what to do," I know you said it wasn't meant to sound that way, but that's how it came off....

Then tell me where JChandler gets off with what he said? What kind of Bullshit is that? I'm not going to waste my time "debating" with people are going to get ugly. To me that wasn't about "Taking the Heat" it was about being mature. It may not look mature to say "**** it" but I'm not wasting my time when people are going to act like that.

I don't mind different opinions, it's unrealistic to think that other people aren't going to agree with you, but being rude is unnecessary.

What was so out of line with Jeff's post? He felt you were being condescending and trying to tell everyone not to breed their snakes.. All the while your breeding yours... Then you say you don't care what people do with their animals but alas you posted this thread??? Then you tell everyone to **** off??? I'm kind of lost at the moment.. Where were you going with this??? I get wanting people to be responsible owners but your going at it all wrong my friend...

Alan

Then tell me where JChandler gets off with what he said? What kind of Bullshit is that? I'm not going to waste my time "debating" with people are going to get ugly. To me that wasn't about "Taking the Heat" it was about being mature. It may not look mature to say "**** it" but I'm not wasting my time when people are going to act like that.

I don't mind different opinions, it's unrealistic to think that other people aren't going to agree with you, but being rude is unnecessary.

I don't speak for Jeff, so the question isn't for me to answer, but I think Alan probably answered that for you with his below post. And I have to agree with him at this point.

I'm sure Jeff will address your question....


What was so out of line with Jeff's post? He felt you were being condescending and trying to tell everyone not to breed their snakes.. All the while your breeding yours... Then you say you don't care what people do with their animals but alas you posted this thread??? Then you tell everyone to **** off??? I'm kind of lost at the moment.. Where were you going with this??? I get wanting people to be responsible owners but your going at it all wrong my friend...

Alan

Yea I'm just going to not pay attention to this thread anymore, this is getting ridiculous. People are clearly taking what I said out of context and are reading between lines that are not there.

The point of this whole damn thread: Be a responsible owner. That is all, you have a problem with that? You can seriously **** off.

Then tell me where JChandler gets off with what he said? What kind of Bullshit is that? I'm not going to waste my time "debating" with people are going to get ugly. To me that wasn't about "Taking the Heat" it was about being mature. It may not look mature to say "**** it" but I'm not wasting my time when people are going to act like that.

I don't mind different opinions, it's unrealistic to think that other people aren't going to agree with you, but being rude is unnecessary.

Get off saying what, disagreeing with you? I don't want to read into anything to obvious...

I have no problem standing behind exactly what I say, did you answer any of my questions that I asked?

Here I will ask them again to engage the conversation further and please try to overlook whatever is making you so touchy.

How do you propose not allowing people to breed with this campaign of snake abstinence that your preaching? Should someone make it a law that you need to get a permit to breed you snake?

wow aaron,
what are 'ya doin' bro ?...
after draggin' my eyeballs through this thread, i'm sitting here wonderin' how this kid (who really hasn't been the upstart he comes across as in this thread) with limited experience, and a small collection comes out and says:

"I'm not telling people not to breed, just to the smaller guys just suggesting to seriously think about it before you start breeding that's all."

...and then wonders why he's catching a little (and i emphasize little) flak from a bunch of dudes lookin' for some clarification.
bro, you were hardly assaulted here, you need to fall back, regroup, and think about what you said...you drop this little nugget on an amateur breeder's website, in the breeding section of the most widely kept critter on here, admit that you're a newbie keeper (and you are, many of us have had herps longer than you've been alive...), then proclaim you'll be breeding while simultaneously urging others not to. when all the time, you're the guy you're supposedly offering this "advice" to. you're the "smaller guy" !
insert mirror, look into mirror, take mental picture !

i hope you breed your balls off this year, i hope you have great success, you have as much right to as the not-so-small breeders do on here. just know that none of the guys on here would tell you not to because you're so new, and so "small".

no one here said anything that should have warranted you're venomous rebuttal, i think sputter said you shouldn't expect to put stuff like that up here and not "catch a little" for it. he's right.
best of luck to you,
save some nice hatchlings for good 'ol ck !
ck

wow aaron,
what are 'ya doin' bro ?...
after draggin' my eyeballs through this thread, i'm sitting here wonderin' how this kid (who really hasn't been the upstart he comes across as in this thread) with limited experience, and a small collection comes out and says:

"I'm not telling people not to breed, just to the smaller guys just suggesting to seriously think about it before you start breeding that's all."

...and then wonders why he's catching a little (and i emphasize little) flak from a bunch of dudes lookin' for some clarification.
bro, you were hardly assaulted here, you need to fall back, regroup, and think about what you said...you drop this little nugget on an amateur breeder's website, in the breeding section of the most widely kept critter on here, admit that you're a newbie keeper (and you are, many of us have had herps longer than you've been alive...), then proclaim you'll be breeding while simultaneously urging others not to. when all the time, you're the guy you're supposedly offering this "advice" to. you're the "smaller guy" !
insert mirror, look into mirror, take mental picture !

i hope you breed your balls off this year, i hope you have great success, you have as much right to as the not-so-small breeders do on here. just know that none of the guys on here would tell you not to because you're so new, and so "small".

no one here said anything that should have warranted you're venomous rebuttal, i think sputter said you shouldn't expect to put stuff like that up here and not "catch a little" for it. he's right.
best of luck to you,
save some nice hatchlings for good 'ol ck !
ck

Nice post CK. Well stated.

Who's your beef with Aaron?? It sounds like your trying to reach a member or members here.. Who is it your trying to reach with your message of don't breed..

Alan

I think you are taking it out of context. I Understand what he is saying, and is just stating a fact that is, more or less true. LOTS of people get a ball python, who know next to nothing about them, and then want to breed!

Heck, I was there once!!!!

Sure, theyre excited! and see all their friends doing it, but i think the idea behind his first post is fairly sound. Dont Breed Without a good reason! and do your research before you do so!

Lots of people, breed... just to breed.... and i think there should be at least a little more thought put behind it before someone introduces two animals. It wasnt aimed here so much as... i think it was just a general thing, that he felt like talking about.

Lots of people, breed... just to breed.... and i think there should be at least a little more thought put behind it before someone introduces two animals. It wasnt aimed here so much as... i think it was just a general thing, that he felt like talking about.

That is why I suggested that he take a stance of selective breeding over a stance of dictatorship.

That is why I suggested that he take a stance of selective breeding over a stance of dictatorship.

I think that is a good suggestion. :)

It definitely is aimed more at newbie type people, but i dont think the assumption, or even insinuation that its aimed at someone here, is really necessary. ( This isnt towards you, i know who i quoted, just wanted that clarified, because it IS in my response to you)

I personally say breed your hearts content out. Be responsible when you breed and sell those animals, and be sure you can house them all if you have to hold on to them for awhile.

I think being prepared, and informed before getting into breeding, is fairly sound advice for anyone. ( and hey, just because this is the BLBC, dosnt mean you might not have some new snake keepers here that could use this sort of advice) :) its just some food for thought.

That is why I suggested that he take a stance of selective breeding over a stance of dictatorship.

Selective breeding, I've always been for selective breeding. Sorry I never made that obvious or known. But unfortunately that isn't how everyone looks at it. Yeah we here at the BLBC may believe that Selective Breeding is the only way but we all also know that there are plenty of other people who could give a rats ass about it.

Selective breeding, I've always been for selective breeding. Sorry I never made that obvious or known. But unfortunately that isn't how everyone looks at it. Yeah we here at the BLBC may believe that Selective Breeding is the only way but we all also know that there are plenty of other people who could give a rats ass about it.

That is true.... some breed for numbers instead of quality!

I always find it interesting when someone advises other people to not do the exact thing they plan on or are doing.

My take on this whole thing is, if someone wants to breed, so be it. It is not our responsibility or even our right to tell them what they should or should not do when we ourselves do the very same thing. Of course it would be great if everyone practices selective breeding and thought about what they are breeding before doing so, but not everyone has the same goals when breeding or even the same reasons. What would qualify as a valid reason to breed? Is just wanting to experience the wonder that is hatching your own animals not good enough? Sure, alot of people get into it with dollar signs in their eyes and not a lick of sense in their heads, but those are generally the people that will be producing piss poor examples of whatever morph they are creating and won't be selling a whole hell of alot of them to people who have their heads screwed on straight. I will not be a person that would dare tell anyone that they cannot pursue their goals if it is within their rights to do so. We can try to urge them to be have some responsibility and urge them to practice selective breeding if their end goal is to eventually sell the animals they produce, but really that's up to them. If they want to produce the crappiest bee ever made just to have a bee, that's cool with me. If they feel like producing hundreds of the crappiest looking pastels to try to make a quick buck, fine, I don't have to buy them.

My view on this whole thread, well, I pretty much agree with the majority here that the original message came off as very pretentious for someone with little experience in breeding and really wasn't suited to this particular audience with the way it was worded. I also think that you should have expected some resistance to your message from the members here and throwing a tantrum because it didn't go your way is a little childish. Anyways, that's my three and a half cents, take it or leave it.