So here is what the other thread concerning 'special' imports got me thinking about. A great many of us produce quite a few 'normal' babies in any given year, yet due to disorganization and the competition by imports, we end up struggling to get rid of these guys (esp. males if the number given away free is any indication). So then I got to thinking about LLLReptile. Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan, but I started to think about how their association with Jons Jungle has altered the quality of animals they carry. Even two years or so ago, their stock was parasite laden import animals (at least the ones a local guy I know bought were), yet ever since the transition to cb and morphs from JJ, the junk animals seem to have decreased dramatically. So I assume the implication is that LLL has also reduced the number of animals they buy WC/CH. And I had to wonder. Is flipping maybe not such an evil in cases like this?? Is there a chance that forming a Captive Bred Co-op of sorts can have a greater impact on the wc/ch market than any of us ever could individually? Just food for thought.....


Cheers,
Kat

I think so. Pet stores lose more than gain if half the animals they buy die on them or are returned because they died. If you can provide them with a good alternative and they find they are making more money, then that is the way they will go. Ultamately it is still about the bottom dollar for them, but they can be used to help the overall industry.

If the person/company is up front about re-selling the animals I dont have a problem with the flip, its when they try to pass them off as their own that they bred that I really have an issue. Most all the wholesalers have went to buying cb's from local breeders instead of importing due to the die off of most w/c. In some cases with colubrids, w/c is about the only option as some species havent gotten going in collections yet. But if they tell me up front hey its w/c or hey we got em from a breeder here its fine with me.....its when I email and they say yeah I bred these and I know they are imports, that is just wrong.

Agreed Richard. It is really about honesty with the customer.

I think this would definitely be a great start to changing the way the hobby works, and definitely adds some food for thought to the whole thing. I wanted to supply my local store with some of my CB animals for people to buy, to reach a larger audience. Ill still be selling my own, but i really think that the first time buyers can REALLY benefit from a FEEDING CB animals from a local breeder, over some random animal that noone knows the history on. Something where, i can leave my card too, and if they need ANY help at all... They can give me a call, or email me.

I agree. In that particular case, putting captive bred animals in the place of w.c. crap is a much better option..

I agree it is a much better option than WC/CH imports, but another main issue with flippers is still quarantine. It is not likely that they will quarantine these CB animals anymore than they would the others, so they may still be selling tainted stock as I am sure that they will have some imports in their inventory even if it is other species. I know I wouldn't want my name associated with a flipper that may contaminate the stock I send them that they sell to someone else.

Perhaps you guys could provide pedigree documents for these offspring and the dealer could pass these on to the retail customer. I imagine it is not in a dealer's best interests to have customers go around them straight to breeders for purchases so this aspect may need some trust-coordination with the dealer. Further complicating this business model is the fact that several of these outfits openly advertise to buy animals and thus are swinging their nets for the cheapest prices they can get.

It might be more productive, in the long run, to simply concentrate on one's product quality and presentment, and aim to go around the middlemen. Quality, pedigree and good service are playing fields on which these guys can be beaten. All dealers do is purport to reach a larger customer base. These abilities are within the grasp of the breeder now. You guys have the power over the dealers, because the dealers have to mark up prices from the breeders. Flex that muscle.