Hi,
Im looking for opinions from those whom feed f/t to their babies. We only have one year under our belt and 22 hatchlings, but we only feed f/t to them. I find that in about 20% of the cases i have to assit feed atleast once, and in 10% i have to assit feed 2-4 time before they start figuring it out. Is this normal for starting them on f.t? Also how long do you let hatchling before assist feeding them? thanks for your experiences.

No one with f/t experience with babies, or am i the only crazy one...lol

No one with f/t experience with babies, or am i the only crazy one...lol

You are not crazy. I only feed f/t. I don't have many balls, but I have a few and have had more in the past. Balls do seem to me to be a little more finicky than some others about it, but generally speaking, I don't have much of a problem. I wound up with 4 babies this year produced by others who had only been feeding live. All 4 ate f/t on first or second attempt and haven't looked back since. I know others have had more problems and maybe some of them will chime in with their experiences.

I attempt the first 6 weeks on f/t. After that i will offer live if they havent had at least one in that time. Force/assist feed is always the last option.

everyone here starts on f/t with rare exception.
this year, i didn't even buy a live anything for anyone.
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If I have one that hasnt eaten f/t in 5 weeks I throw them live then try f/t each time after that til they switch over to f/t .
If they wont eat at all, I try assist at 5-6 wks . I have had to force feed 2 a few times in order to get them started .

20% seems on the high side, but not unrealistically high. Mine is closer to 10% that need assist fed 1-2 times before taking their first meal on their own. But it also depends on how long you wait till assist feeding the first time. I've had ones go almost a month before eating the first time that were right on the verge of being assist fed. So if you assist after 2-3 weeks 20% might be right about where I am.

I've never had good luck feeding f/t as the first meal. I start all our babies on live hopper mice. After they eat a couple of times I start offering f/t fuzzy rats that have been scented with live mice, rub the f/t fuzzy on the mice. Most jump on it first time and don't need to be scented again, others take a time or 2 before they don't need to be scented.

Seems like maybe im just not waiting long enough to not assist feed them. This was my first year so i admit i was a bit worried after a few week, I will hold out a bit longer. thanks for the input guys it is much appreciated.

Started 17 hatchlings last season on F/T and 5 so far this season. No assist feeds. Get the best reaction from small mice rather than rat pups or fuzzies.

Had over 20 hatchlings this year. Did not have to assist feed one all got live hopper to start then over to rat pups. Some took F/T but that was just to see if they would.

I only tend to stick with F/T for any of my snakes, but I breed rats for my hatchlings.

I start out feeding live rat pinks at first then gradually wean them onto F/T. If I have a picky baby that refuses eating live or F/T for more than 3 weeks after first shed then I assist feed with a F/T hopper. After they take that down and still don't get the idea, I assist until they get it.

A female normal I produced last season had to be assisted 3-4 times before she got it. She started taking live rat pinks then I got her to take F/T hoppers.

I breed rodents, so I don't feed anything f/t. Asist feeding is a last resort, it largely depends on the size the hatchling came out at. Larger hatchlings may go five weeks after their initial shed, without eating. Hatchlings on the small size may only go two or three weeks before I asist.

If I have luck this year and hatch my first ball babies I plan to try to start them on f/t hopper mice. So far any baby I've bought that was previously eating live hopper mice with the breeder goes to f/t on 1st or 2nd attempt with no trickery, so I am thinking it can't be THAT hard to start 'em on f/t. Most of my hatchling corns eat f/t from the get go. I think the main thing is not to start poking mice at them until they are good and hungry, it just stresses them out and makes them associate the whole feeding action with a fearful experience.

For those of you who only feed live, isn't it risky for your snakes when a large rat is biting on their neck while they are getting squeezed? It seems fine when the rats are small, but once they get past pups, their teeth can do some damage even when they are in the snakes clutch. Just wondering if you have problems with that. I would prefer to have all mine on f/t, but a few are being real pain in the you know whats about it.

For those of you who only feed live, isn't it risky for your snakes when a large rat is biting on their neck while they are getting squeezed? It seems fine when the rats are small, but once they get past pups, their teeth can do some damage even when they are in the snakes clutch. Just wondering if you have problems with that. I would prefer to have all mine on f/t, but a few are being real pain in the you know whats about it.

This is something that is a real concern for me because I see the results in my practice fairly often. However, many of the experienced ball python breeders I talk to swear they never have any problems with it. I don't know if it's because they watch every one until the rat is dead or if they are doing something else to prevent the problem. I am also interested to hear how those of you who feed live prevent this problem.

I feed live. Oh! How I WISH I could switch all the balls to frozen!!! Firstly, because I HATE rodents. With a passion. Can't stand them. Secondly, because it's an hour-drive to pick up live rodents from another local ball breeder, & the gas is getting expensive to do this every week!!

THirdly, because I do worry about the bigger rats & the older balls. What we have begun doing is giving the rats a good smack before we toss them in the tub with the snake. [ note: we do this for anything bigger then a rat pup ] This either 1. stuns / dazes the rat for a few seconds so the snake can grab it appropriately, or 2. kills the rat, but the rat will do death throws which still piques the snake's interest. 3. I don't feed anything bigger then a small rat, or a smaller medium rat. I'd rather feed 2 meals then 1 meal that could do damage.

Even since we started giving the bigger rats a smack we haven't had problems with the snakes getting hurt. I use to care about the whole "Awwwwww, poor rats" thing until my albino got chewed up after grabbing the rat the wrong way :mad:

In the end, it was my snakes safety vs the stupid rats dieing "humanely." Snakes won. :lmao:

[ another thing I do is make sure all the rats have been fed & watered before I toss them in with the snake...decreases the odds of chewing the snake up out of hunger ] ~

What we have begun doing is giving the rats a good smack before we toss them in the tub with the snake. [ note: we do this for anything bigger then a rat pup ] This either 1. stuns / dazes the rat for a few seconds so the snake can grab it appropriately, or 2. kills the rat, but the rat will do death throws which still piques the snake's interest. 3. I don't feed anything bigger then a small rat, or a smaller medium rat. I'd rather feed 2 meals then 1 meal that could do damage.



Ok, but what do you do with the half dead rats if the snakes don't take them? My snakes don't eat every time I offer, and I end up either refreezing the F/T or putting the live rat pup back in a cage.

What works for me (only 50 or so babies and I raise my own rats).

I start with live pinky rats just to get them eating. I start offering f/t as soon as they've eaten a few times and just keep offering every time until they eventually switch over (I just had my last holdout 2011 baby take f/t for the first time this weekend).

Around Feb I start freezing up pinkies, fuzzies, pups in preperation for the upcoming season.

Tough feeders get assist/force fed after missing only a few meals. They have all transitioned (force to assist to live to f/t) without problems.

Ok, but what do you do with the half dead rats if the snakes don't take them? My snakes don't eat every time I offer, and I end up either refreezing the F/T or putting the live rat pup back in a cage.

i was actually worried about this when a friend of mine suggested giving them a smack. To give you an idea, we have around 45 snakes. [ I know, small collection lol ] 35 of them are balls. Of the 35, 15 of them take small rats or bigger.

Of all my snakes, I only have 2 snakes off feed. [ a proven male ghost & a 600gram spider female ] I offer them a live rat pup [ no smacking required ] if they take it, great! If not, I give it to someone else.

Of the 15 who get fed smacked rats, I haven't had any not take them. Usually, if they don't take them by the time I'm done feeding the rest, I'll give the rat a little wiggle & that will get a strike response.

From what I've been told, if a snake doesn't take the fresh killed rat, you can just toss it in the freezer like you would a f/t & can defrost it & re-feed later to those who do eat frozen. [ just so people understand...giving the rat a smack there's no blood or anything I always thought it was messy til I actually saw someone do it, it's not as bad as I imagined ]

I've been pretty lucky tho [ Thank God, knock on wood ] that all my balls are great feeders with a good feeding response. Some even take 2nds & 3rds if I let them, or buy too many rats.

Hope that helped. ~

Hope that helped. ~

Most definitely! Thanks for so much info!

I feed only f/t unless there is no other option. But this is only because i dont produce my own feeders. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding live IMO. I mean, come on, its what they do! Is there a risk? Sure, but isnt there risk in everything?

I feed only f/t unless there is no other option. But this is only because i dont produce my own feeders. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding live IMO. I mean, come on, its what they do! Is there a risk? Sure, but isnt there risk in everything?

There is risk and it is a natural part of the life of a snake, but let's don't forget that we're locking our snakes away in a small plastic tub with a live rat/mouse. If things go wrong in nature, there is always an escape. And if the snake decides not to eat, he/she isn't locked inside a closed space with a hungry critter. I'm not against feeding live either, but the risk needs to be alleviated as much as possible.

I find it so easy on myself and the hathcling to feed it a small live mouse hopper for its first meal. I think for the first meal the wild instincted ball python doesn't want a flying mouse or rat pinky hitting its face. It wants to be left alone with no huge face peering in so it can hunt. After that once they realize that their in captivity and that the tub is their home I switch to F\T.

There is risk and it is a natural part of the life of a snake, but let's don't forget that we're locking our snakes away in a small plastic tub with a live rat/mouse. If things go wrong in nature, there is always an escape. And if the snake decides not to eat, he/she isn't locked inside a closed space with a hungry critter. I'm not against feeding live either, but the risk needs to be alleviated as much as possible.

:yessir: Leaving a rat in a cage for an extended period, your right, shouldn't be done. I'm just stating the case that those that feed live responsibly are A.O.K. in my book. I should have elaborated a bit more.

:yessir: Leaving a rat in a cage for an extended period, your right, shouldn't be done. I'm just stating the case that those that feed live responsibly are A.O.K. in my book. I should have elaborated a bit more.

Agreed.

Thank you all for all the responses. I like the idea of live hopper for first meal or two, then switching to f/t. Again, thanks for all the input. I'm off to grab some grub for the snakes right now, it's feeding night!

Most definitely! Thanks for so much info!

Glad it helped! :cheers: ~

I have over 40 bps, so its a lot easier for me to feed live. ( plus we breed all our feeders ) I closely watch all my snakes during feeding time, with tongs or a snake hook in hand if the rat is able to bite my snake after its wrapped. That way I just shove the tongs or hook into the rats mouth to chew on, instead of my snake. I DO wish I could give them a whack before offering to my snakes, but I really don't think I can.

Last year with all my babies, I fed live mouse hoppers. I did have two that needed assist fed and ended up dying :( I'm guessing from the stress of being fed like that. This season I plan on feeding live mouse hoppers again. If I have someone who wants to buy a baby from me and wants it on f/t, I'll make the switch for them.

I raise my own rats but decided to get all hatchlings to f/t this year to make it easier when selling them. If they don't take f/t right away I offer live. I won't assist feed unless they've skipped a few meals.

I closely watch all my snakes during feeding time, with tongs or a snake hook in hand if the rat is able to bite my snake after its wrapped. That way I just shove the tongs or hook into the rats mouth to chew on, instead of my snake.

Oh yes! We do this too. Even with the ones where we smack the rats. [ just in case the rat was "dazed" & comes out of it ] I've actually had to sit there with the tongs in the rats mouth for quite some time. [ not the funnest thing in the world to do ]

Really tho, one of the reasons I started smacking them was....I threw a small rat in with my albino female. My albino female, for some reason...decided to grab the tip of the TAIL of the rat & started yanking at it! [ :dunno: ] Needless to say, the rat got severely pissed & turned around to bite her on the face. But, since I always watched my snakes strike, I was able to grab the rat with the tongs in time, til my albino decided to stop being stupid & rap around it. This took a whole 10 minutes of me holding the rat to stop it from biting the snake, whole the snake kept yanking the rat's tail.

Needless to say, anything bigger then a fresh-weaned gets a smack now. The "grabbing the rat by the tail" incident was too close of a call for me. Fortunately, most of my snakes strike quickly, so it doesn't take any extra time to make sure they grabbed their prey right. ~