constrictorkeeper
02-26-2009, 04:58 PM
don't know if you guys have seen this: it's off the KS kingsnake forum, NOT WRITTEN BY ME !
Poor choice for substrate
Posted by: gmerker at Wed Feb 25 13:53:19 2009
I am writing this to let you all know about my experiences with the product “Cell-Sorb Plus®”. I first saw Cell-Sorb Plus® at a local reptile shop this past July noting that the package labeling listed its safe use for reptiles. After making an inquiry about the store’s experience with the substrate, I decided to try it. In the past, I have used paper towels, newspaper, and CareFresh® with no problems.
I initially tried Cell-Sorb Plus® because I liked its density. I felt it would hold heat better than CareFresh®. To be honest, I also felt it had looked better in the cages than the latter substrate as well. I maintain well over 150 enclosures and decided to change over to the new substrate on a need-to-be cleaned basis. By late November, all of the cages were filled with Cell-Sorb Plus®.
Unfortunately, by this time period, I also started to notice a larger-than-usual die off of animals. For the past 15 years, on average, I would lose about one to two animals per year (around 1% of my collection). Most of these deaths could be attributed to old age, egg retention, etc. By the time I was finished using Cell-Sorb Plus®, I had lost close to 15 animals, mainly young and old animals. I=2 0lost my first animal, a Gray-banded Kingsnake in September. Since it was only one animal, I did not think the substrate was to blame. I started brumating animals during early November and by late December had a massive die off. Animals would die an excruciating death, often dying in agony with their mouths open. I concurrently noticed many animals have extremely worn eye spectacles and head scutes (see image).
At this time, I felt the substrate was causing problems and changed over all animals back to CareFresh® or paper toweling and turned on the cage heaters. Animals with severe scale damage were placed on damp paper towels on heat. Although not as numerous, I still had a few animals die after being placed on a different substrate. These animals were for the most part pretty scuffed up from the Cell-Sorb Plus®.
Three of my animals that died have been necropsied. I received the results from all three this past week. These animals died due to severe sepsis. Of particular concern is the final paragraph of one of the results reading: “ There are multifocal areas of acute inflammatory lesions such as within the sections of skin and liver. This suggests a possible endotoxemia. Damage to the superficial epithelium may have permitted a bacterial infection and subsequent endotoxemia.”
Furthermore, the lungs on one animal were filled with proteinaceous fluid. Likewise, various organs and systems had this proteinaceous fluid in them. Cultures run of the lungs a nd guts revealed three different strains of bacteria in the gut; fluids from the lungs did not culture anything. The animals that still seem to be afflicted are being treated with a round of TriMethaSulfa drugs; the latter was chosen by my veterinarian based on the culture results.
At first, the veterinarian felt that I had overdosed the animals with liquid Vitamin D3. One of the animals had what appeared to be visceral gout in the mouth. Later, it was uncovered that what appeared to be gout was actually a severe bacterial infection. I do want to repeat that the only factor consistent with ALL animals dying was that their cage was lined with Cell-Sorb Plus®. I feel that this product is not satisfactory for use with Gray-banded Kingsnakes and Sonoran Mountain Kingsnakes; in fact, it may cause severe problems such as the ones I experienced in my collection.
I also want to point out that I have heard from several others that have experienced problems with their collections that were similar to mine. In addition, the reptile specialty store where I first saw the product no longer uses Cell-Sorb Plus® in their cages.
Now, I don’t want to say that Cell-Sorb Plus® is selling tainted substrate laden with bacteria. Rather, I think that the animals became severely abraded and stressed. In this situation, bacteria overwhelmed the animal and the snakes eventually died. Cell-Sorb Plus® is too rough to be used with animals such as Gray-banded Kingsnakes and Sonoran Mou tain Kingsnakes. The tendency of these animals to burrow into the substrate may cause damage to the superficial epithelium allowing bacteria to invade the animal.
Finally, I did attempt to contact the company manufacturing Cell-Sorb Plus®, once by email and once by telephone. Neither time did anyone but the secretary talk to me. I explained my situation to the secretary and she stated that this was the first time they ever heard of anyone having problems with Cell-Sorb Plus®. I feel the latter is the company by-line for denial BECAUSE I know for a fact that at least two other people have contacted them regarding problems using Cell-Sorb Plus®.
Thanks to all for reading this; any suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
just in case you've been considering the stuff...
ck
Poor choice for substrate
Posted by: gmerker at Wed Feb 25 13:53:19 2009
I am writing this to let you all know about my experiences with the product “Cell-Sorb Plus®”. I first saw Cell-Sorb Plus® at a local reptile shop this past July noting that the package labeling listed its safe use for reptiles. After making an inquiry about the store’s experience with the substrate, I decided to try it. In the past, I have used paper towels, newspaper, and CareFresh® with no problems.
I initially tried Cell-Sorb Plus® because I liked its density. I felt it would hold heat better than CareFresh®. To be honest, I also felt it had looked better in the cages than the latter substrate as well. I maintain well over 150 enclosures and decided to change over to the new substrate on a need-to-be cleaned basis. By late November, all of the cages were filled with Cell-Sorb Plus®.
Unfortunately, by this time period, I also started to notice a larger-than-usual die off of animals. For the past 15 years, on average, I would lose about one to two animals per year (around 1% of my collection). Most of these deaths could be attributed to old age, egg retention, etc. By the time I was finished using Cell-Sorb Plus®, I had lost close to 15 animals, mainly young and old animals. I=2 0lost my first animal, a Gray-banded Kingsnake in September. Since it was only one animal, I did not think the substrate was to blame. I started brumating animals during early November and by late December had a massive die off. Animals would die an excruciating death, often dying in agony with their mouths open. I concurrently noticed many animals have extremely worn eye spectacles and head scutes (see image).
At this time, I felt the substrate was causing problems and changed over all animals back to CareFresh® or paper toweling and turned on the cage heaters. Animals with severe scale damage were placed on damp paper towels on heat. Although not as numerous, I still had a few animals die after being placed on a different substrate. These animals were for the most part pretty scuffed up from the Cell-Sorb Plus®.
Three of my animals that died have been necropsied. I received the results from all three this past week. These animals died due to severe sepsis. Of particular concern is the final paragraph of one of the results reading: “ There are multifocal areas of acute inflammatory lesions such as within the sections of skin and liver. This suggests a possible endotoxemia. Damage to the superficial epithelium may have permitted a bacterial infection and subsequent endotoxemia.”
Furthermore, the lungs on one animal were filled with proteinaceous fluid. Likewise, various organs and systems had this proteinaceous fluid in them. Cultures run of the lungs a nd guts revealed three different strains of bacteria in the gut; fluids from the lungs did not culture anything. The animals that still seem to be afflicted are being treated with a round of TriMethaSulfa drugs; the latter was chosen by my veterinarian based on the culture results.
At first, the veterinarian felt that I had overdosed the animals with liquid Vitamin D3. One of the animals had what appeared to be visceral gout in the mouth. Later, it was uncovered that what appeared to be gout was actually a severe bacterial infection. I do want to repeat that the only factor consistent with ALL animals dying was that their cage was lined with Cell-Sorb Plus®. I feel that this product is not satisfactory for use with Gray-banded Kingsnakes and Sonoran Mountain Kingsnakes; in fact, it may cause severe problems such as the ones I experienced in my collection.
I also want to point out that I have heard from several others that have experienced problems with their collections that were similar to mine. In addition, the reptile specialty store where I first saw the product no longer uses Cell-Sorb Plus® in their cages.
Now, I don’t want to say that Cell-Sorb Plus® is selling tainted substrate laden with bacteria. Rather, I think that the animals became severely abraded and stressed. In this situation, bacteria overwhelmed the animal and the snakes eventually died. Cell-Sorb Plus® is too rough to be used with animals such as Gray-banded Kingsnakes and Sonoran Mou tain Kingsnakes. The tendency of these animals to burrow into the substrate may cause damage to the superficial epithelium allowing bacteria to invade the animal.
Finally, I did attempt to contact the company manufacturing Cell-Sorb Plus®, once by email and once by telephone. Neither time did anyone but the secretary talk to me. I explained my situation to the secretary and she stated that this was the first time they ever heard of anyone having problems with Cell-Sorb Plus®. I feel the latter is the company by-line for denial BECAUSE I know for a fact that at least two other people have contacted them regarding problems using Cell-Sorb Plus®.
Thanks to all for reading this; any suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
just in case you've been considering the stuff...
ck