I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain the obvious advantages of one over the other to anyone here. But I am curious what everyone's stance is on the continued practice of importing WC animals, when we have several well-established captive breeding populations right here on our own American soil.

Do you think it should be discontinued outright all across the board? Or perhaps just allowed for select species, and of so, which ones and why?

A few years ago I got a list of the importers and numbers for CH , WC & WC Gravid BPs. All total it was in excess of 80,000 brought into the US. For the 07/08 season the importers cut the numbers due to the economy but I suspect it was also because the numbers just weren't needed. I'm pretty sure we don't need 80,000 or more CH coming in and I doubt we even need 5,000 CH coming in. That market can easily move to selective harvest or just shut down. With the BP market moving steadily into morph crosses the need of 200 lot or bigger of females to start a breeding business isn't needed and if it was , could easily be handled with CB.

Nics are still farmed but I'm not sure in what numbers. I can see some fresh blood trickling in for the Nics for a few more years.

Iguana farms could move into the alternative food market quite easily and not flood the US with $2 lizards that get beat up , put up for adoption or just fall over dead from abuse.

I'm not up on what all else is imported except for some venomous from Africa. Hots aren't my thing so I don't bother following them.

I think Madagascar could open up for selective harvest on Sanzinia. A bit of fresh blood there wouldn't hurt.

Australia could easily open for selective harvest on Beardeds without a major impact on wild populations at all. Could even bring in few dollars setting up a program with the captive breeders of their reptile species easily.

I have decided that I am going to make an effort to not deal with breeders that deal in imported or wild caught reptiles. Now having said that, I do agree that some species should be imported. Animals that need more diversity in the captive population or animals that would be considered special would be the exception.

Imported ball pythons are not needed in this country and most of them end up suffering.

I see no need of reason to import CH or wild caught Gravid female ball pythons unless it can in some way benefit our captive breeding efforts.

I don't think there is any need to bring in WC or CH anymore. There are more then enough CB available now.

I only get to go to 2 shows a year which is a 6 hour drive for me. Every time I go there is always a couple of tables selling CH ball pythons. They are usually priced at about $50. Here in Canada CB males go for $65 and females $100.

It pisses me off when you see actual BREEDERS only selling a handful of animals and then some a-hole who just picked his up at the airport selling hundreds. I think there are 2 major factors that play into this.

1 - Most people at the shows don't know the difference between CB and CH , nor do they care. They only see the difference in price.

2 - The other half that do know the difference are buying CH in hopes of finding that new morph.

And as always a week or 2 after the show there are a hundred new threads from people who just bought a new ball and it won't eat for them. Most people don't know the name of who they bought it from. Oddly enough none of these CH sellers ever include a care sheet or business card and then the buyers look for advice from the real breeders begging them for help.

Seems kinda ironic that the people who don't buy from real breeders are always the first ones to look to them for help.

Just my 2 cents.

I enjoy getting my annual unsorted bags of ch babies -- it certainly wouldn't kill me if they stopped importing them but I do enjoy that time of year.

I do not think that we should import ball pytons. Imports are tanking the market! It is hard for breeders to sell normal ball pythons. If we stop importing them then ball python prices will go up. All of the petstore will have to buy from the breeders. Supply and demand. If normal go up then morphs will go up. I do not see the downside.

I will never own a ch / wc ball python!

I do agree that if we were to stop importing ball pythons, it would alter the supply for normals greatly and help the ball market to a good extent. However, I do like being able to search through farmed animals to find a couple unique looking normals to work with. The ball python morph craze is what it is because of the numbers we have been able to import. If balls had only been imported in numbers more comparable to, say, common boas, we would only have a handful of morphs available instead of hundreds of different ones.

I think there is a huge misconception about pet stores being forced to buy from breeders if importing wasn't available -- most petstore that are picking up the bulk CH will only buy in bulk for cheap - period -- whether it reverts back to them buying them in bulk from someone like Gourmet Rodent which they were doing up until just a few years ago or if they pick up ch babies from the importer for less -- will make not make much of an impact what happens in the industry -- if they can't get them cheap in bulk it will be one less animal they will have in their stores. They're not going to go around buying up everyones left over normals.

The only thing tanking the price of the normal are morphs.

The only thing tanking the price of the normal are morphs.

you've got a valid point there tosh.
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To be completely honest with you I'm not about the importation of WC Adults or even just your plain jane normals... I think we have plenty enough of those and when it comes to selling them it's hard to get a proper price back on them when you have a guy a table over or across selling imported baby's for $15-$20ea... However I definitely support the importation of very select captive hatched babies... There's just too much stuff over there being hatched every year that is out of this world!

Colleen and I were actually lucky enough to hand pick through about 500 at a friends place earlier this year as well as go thru some over at Ben Siegel's place down in Deerfield Beach, FL.


To me there's nothing like going thru 100's of tubs of select funky looking animals finding some really crazy looking stuff... and then taking home your picks with the excitement and anticipation of raising it up to breed and see what they produce for ya!

Here's a few we couldn't resist to take home as well as supportive reasons as to why CH's (selects) Rock!! :letsparty:

All Females
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l112/djslurp1200/OCT%20Snake%20pics%2008/1234074.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l112/djslurp1200/CH%20Ball/CH%20animals/ballPithons003.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l112/djslurp1200/CH%20Ball/CH%20animals/ballPithons012.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l112/djslurp1200/CH%20Ball/CH%20animals/ballPithons016.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l112/djslurp1200/CH%20Ball/CH%20animals/ballersvisit2011.jpg

:rockon:

I will say sure stop the imports but every year I end up picking up 20+ females, then pick out the best eaters and what appeals to me about them and sell the rest...

This season I have 15 females I am going to toss males in with so even if I get half to lay then I will have more than enough normals to try and sell later on at our local show or to any of the pet stores that still talk to me...:D

As with any subject there are many angles in which to look at things. And I am not looking at any one species as I write this.

From a pure hobbyist stand point, someone who just plain loves working with herps, imports are important. New species, new bloodlines, unique normal specimens, hets/morphs, localities, etc, etc. Stopping importation across the board would be devastating.

As far as disallowing some and allowing limited numbers of others to be imported.... who gets to decide that? Breeders? Importers? Retailers? Hobbyist? That mythical panel of people that will represent the industry in complete good faith with nothing but the best interest of the animals and hobby in mind?

With that being said, I would certainly like to see the industry take a more responsible approach to importation. I'm afraid that aint ever going to happen though as long as people 4 and 5 rungs down from the exporter continue to make good money, easier money than by breeding or reselling captive bred.

I personally never want to see an across the board ban on importation. In fact I want every species in the world to be imported in responsible numbers. And that number would certainly vary depending on the species. The reason I feel this way is because I honestly believe that in 50 years (25 years) that many species may only exist in the collections of private breeders. That goes for many of our own native species.