Is there a legitimate genetic difference or are theses just two names for the same animal?

Is there a legitimate genetic difference or are theses just two names for the same animal?

I'm not sure, but I think it's the same with two different expressions. Either way, they do look different and they do impact on combos in different ways.

the super cinny is more browish and the super black pastel is more blackish

the combos are as well

Cool. Thanks guys.

I tend to lean more towards them being the same gene, just different "lines" of the gene. As more people breed them to any old snake they can, there are cinnamon looking snakes coming from black pastel breedings and vice-versa.

I tend to lean more towards them being the same gene, just different "lines" of the gene. As more people breed them to any old snake they can, there are cinnamon looking snakes coming from black pastel breedings and vice-versa.

Thats what makes the most sense to me.

Thats what makes the most sense to me.

me too . they are compatable .

Yes they are compatible in the same sense that a mojo and lesser are compatible. They seem to be different variations of the same mutation...

we went with the blacks. really want some hypo blacks

I tend to lean more towards them being the same gene, just different "lines" of the gene. As more people breed them to any old snake they can, there are cinnamon looking snakes coming from black pastel breedings and vice-versa.

Im on the same boat with you on this one.

Kind of the same with the Lessers(butter) and Mojaves. Both produce Blue eyed leusistics, but only one can produce a more cleaner whiter snake.

Im on the same boat with you on this one.

Kind of the same with the Lessers(butter) and Mojaves. Both produce Blue eyed leusistics, but only one can produce a more cleaner whiter snake.

Is this the case with the supper cinny/ super black pastel?

BTW I appreciate every ones responses. I have never been a big fan of cinnys/ black pastels. However lately I have become enamored with thought of silver streak pins

I personally think that the differences between an ideal black pastel and an ideal cinnamon are quite striking. Much more so in my mind than the butter vs. lesser and a lot easier for someone like myself to pick up on. I'm a huge cinnamon fan, have been since I first laid eyes on one..... I wouldn't mind having a nice black pastel or two though!

I'm inclined to believe that they are their own individual mutations which share an allele that produces the same type of super as with the butter, lesser, mojo complex. But then again I still have a LOT to learn.

Black pastels and cinnies are definitely the same gene, but slightly different alleles. That being said, I've seen some "light" black pastels and some really dark "cinnamons", but for the most part I can find a definite difference between the two. I used to prefer cinnies, but now think they both have their own strengths that they can lend to combo morphs.

BTW I appreciate every ones responses. I have never been a big fan of cinnys/ black pastels. However lately I have become enamored with thought of silver streak pins Winston, nobody's mentioned this so I thought I would, which you might know already... if you're looking for Silver Streak or a combo of Silver Streak Pins you deffo want to get the Bl. Pastels, you can't make them without the Bl. Pastels :yessir:

Black pastel female and and pewter female made with black pastel is hopefully what will be shaking loose from a deal I am trying to hammer out :)
Thats what made me inquire.

That sounds great. I'm looking to buy a couple bl. pastels later on in the year when they start hatching.

Winston, nobody's mentioned this so I thought I would, which you might know already... if you're looking for Silver Streak or a combo of Silver Streak Pins you deffo want to get the Bl. Pastels, you can't make them without the Bl. Pastels :yessir:

No but you can make sterlings which again I lean towards :lol: Check out the sterlings that Albey has produced and I'm sure you'll see why!

Ingredients are still basically the same,

Super pastel black pastel for silver streak
Super pastel cinnamon for sterling.

I like the pattern of the Black pastel better but it might just be the lines that I have gotten.
I found a pic I had from last year were you can see the difference between them.
Black pastel left side cinn right side


http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w173/damian47/snakes068.jpg

i personally prefer that pattern (let's face it, it's the same general pattern) on the darker look of the black pastel.
a fine black pastel is a thing to behold.
ck

I love the extremes of both forms, but couldn't choose a favorite. Apples to oranges.

Put this pair together tonight and thought it would make a good comparison. Its a VPI Black Pastel and a Graziani line Cinny
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w231/WestCoastJungle/snakes/CindymeetsBlackie.jpg

I very much prefer cinnies to black pastels. Their patterns and cleaner and their colors are richer IMO. I also like how the pattern kind of floats in some cinnies. Awesomeness. :D

I think theyre both great. They give you the best of two worlds. People that love blushes and color lean more towards cinnies. And then you have your dark snake lovers like myself that love Black pastels way more than Cinnys. Theyre both awesome and they both have alot of potential.

Put this pair together tonight and thought it would make a good comparison. Its a VPI Black Pastel and a Graziani line Cinny
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w231/WestCoastJungle/snakes/CindymeetsBlackie.jpg

Beautiful examples of both morphs. Both of those snakes are gorgeous.

That is a good picture Raul! I like how it shows how they differ even as adults.

Brock

When i purchased my sterlings from Greg Graziani we had a discussion about exactly this. According to Greg they are the same thing and are fully compatible. The difference is that they have been line bred over the years for a different look. Greg breeds his to produce more blushing and they are a little lighter. The blacks have been bred for exactly that black gothic look he said. He said that the same is true for all the pastels as well. This is why Graziani line pastels have much more blushing in the black patterning. Also his supers heads are very white compare to some of the others. The lemon has been bred to have darker and skinnier patterning. So its all the same just line bred for slightly different looks for all they different preferences out there.

imo.. putting the cinny gene vs the black gene .. up against butter and lesser. is a bad comparison. a black pastel to me looks alot different than a cinny. and their combos are night and day.

this is just my opinion. but most people have no problem picking out a black pastel from a cinny. ALOT of people have problems picking out a butter from a lesser. lesser bee vs butter bee.. is there a visual difference?

totally different gene with similar characteristics i would say.