breeder spiders for $300.... het pied pairs for $250... 08 mojos going for 225....

I keep seeing these prices and my jaw keeps hitting the floor... We are only doing this to our selves people!

I think you're preaching to the choir here. :D

oh i know.... i just had to vent... its amazing to see some of this stuff going so cheap and most of the 09s havent hit yet...

I think a lot of co-doms are reaching their bottom price, which they'll hold out on. I think the economy affected the market so badly last year that some people are panicking a little. I was expecting a price drop, but not this much of one. I mean, I've seen large, breed this year pastel females for under $400. That's an absolute steal.

I think a lot of co-doms are reaching their bottom price, which they'll hold out on. I think the economy affected the market so badly last year that some people are panicking a little. I was expecting a price drop, but not this much of one. I mean, I've seen large, breed this year pastel females for under $400. That's an absolute steal.

Wish i had seen that one lol

Wish i had seen that one lol

I saw a couple actually. Of course, they were gone within a couple days.

I think you're preaching to the choir here. :D

Yeahh Boyyee

:yourock:

Well even at these great prices most people are in trouble & can't afford that,I seen many collection sales because of people losing their job,people need money they have to do what they have to do! not that we like it.:)

Usually right about this time of year we see a lot of "bargains". The issue this year is that they STILL aren't selling, and people are dropping the prices lower, and also.. the prices are not rebounding.

Some price dropping is normal, but there's a LOT more of the super bargains this year than any other year I remember. Some people are having to sell off most or all of their snakes, and no one seems to be buying. I'm hoping prices will be okay for the new hatchlings once they start coming up for sale.

It is simple supply and demand...

You have to remember, the economy has really taken a toll on the hobby. While many people do earn a living with herps, the bulk of the herp community does it simply as a hobby.

When the bank account gets tight, and things get cut - hobbys are usually one of the first things to go.

The # of people keeping herps is less this year, the number of herps available are higher then ever. The people that are still collecting/buying are more thrifty with their spending overall. With more herps, and less customers - prices are going to drop. I doubt you will ever see a rebound... It is just part of it.

It's kinda a joke how prices drop so fast. I got a pair of het pieds last year for $500 and now there half price. Just giving away money.

It's kinda a joke how prices drop so fast. I got a pair of het pieds last year for $500 and now there half price. Just giving away money.
If it makes you feel any better, I paid $1500 for an '06 female orange ghost in '07. She should be dropping her first clutch in the next month or two. Now you can pick up pastel hypo's for less than what I paid. :p

If it makes you feel any better, I paid $1500 for an '06 female orange ghost in '07. She should be dropping her first clutch in the next month or two. Now you can pick up pastel hypo's for less than what I paid. :p

ouch!!!

It is simple supply and demand...

You have to remember, the economy has really taken a toll on the hobby. While many people do earn a living with herps, the bulk of the herp community does it simply as a hobby.

When the bank account gets tight, and things get cut - hobbys are usually one of the first things to go.

The # of people keeping herps is less this year, the number of herps available are higher then ever. The people that are still collecting/buying are more thrifty with their spending overall. With more herps, and less customers - prices are going to drop. I doubt you will ever see a rebound... It is just part of it.

Supply and demand, and a need to make room for this years hatchlings etc make for cheap pricing. Every year these same morphs are bred in great numbers which results in lower prices.... they ain't going to stay the same price for long.

Yes, but remember too, it's as if you're paying the higher price for the larger snakes in many instances.
A pastel male last year cost $300, and this year they cost $125.. but the ones that only pay $125 can't breed theirs until ANOTHER year. So the price drops, but there is minor compensation.
But I wish the prices would only drop a little, some are ridiculous in how fast they plummet.

but the ones that only pay $125 can't breed theirs until ANOTHER year. .

Why can't they? From a business perspective - Why would you wait another year to try and recoup your investment if we all know the prices go to shit so quick?

The market if anything is rebounding not failing/tanking, we've talked with several senior breeders here lately that are reporting a huge increase in buying and selling in the overall reptile industry. Don't judge the market based on kingsnake alone. The NARBC shows are reporting record numbers.

Mark Bailey along with Jeff Ronnie both said here recently that they're seeing, a big rebound from the last couple years.

The sky isn't falling so remain calm..

The market if anything is rebounding not failing/tanking, we've talked with several senior breeders here lately that are reporting a huge increase in buying and selling in the overall reptile industry. Don't judge the market based on kingsnake alone. The NARBC shows are reporting record numbers.

Mark Bailey along with Jeff Ronnie both said here recently that they're seeing, a big rebound from the last couple years.

The sky isn't falling so remain calm..

I sold more at the last show I vended at then I have in the last few years.... people are buying.

The sky isn't falling so remain calm..

But calm is no fun -

I sold more at the last show I vended at then I have in the last few years.... people are buying.

They sure are and was GREAT show for us

BUT are they buying because a large group of hobbyist are not able to get thier hands on morphs of what ever species they could not afford before?

Are they buying because prices are dropping?

BUT are they buying because a large group of hobbyist are not able to get thier hands on morphs of what ever species they could not afford before?

Are they buying because prices are dropping?

There buying because prices are dropping. I mean I wouldnt just go out and buy a 1500 dollar snake and not breed it. I think once the prices get into the 200 300 range the prices will stable out because a lot of people wont breed., but some still will who knows.....

BUT are they buying because a large group of hobbyist are not able to get thier hands on morphs of what ever species they could not afford before?

Are they buying because prices are dropping?

That's part of it, some were getting their first.... some bought just to have a display educational good looking animal and some bought a specific morph for breeding plans.... either way, they are buying.

Okay this is my point on the subject. I have a small collection and I don't have a lot of money, like most of the people on here. When I look for snakes that I want, I shop around. I go to the classifieds, go to breeders websites. If I feel that the breeder has a nice looking snake for a higher price that some other guy. I will purchase from the breeder. But if someone has a good deal on the a nice snake (and the person is not BAD GUY), well thats good for me and for them. I get what I wanted and they got some money. Who knows what is going on in their life to make them put it that low. They maybe behind on their mortgage, hospital bills, they got laid off, or a baby who knows. Now people will not see that price on the classifieds anymore, therefore the market price is now open. But I guaran-damn-tee you that I wont be selling the babies from that clutch at the same price that I got the good deal on. Thats the problem, people buy at a low price so they think they have to sell at a low price. The market is going to go up and down no matter what we do, that's business. There is always going to be a crap load of pastels, spiders, cinnamons on the classifieds thats because the price is lower than your recessive gene animals and people are able to breed them. But people will always buy. So hang in there, and buy the animals that you like, not the price.

Why can't they? From a business perspective - Why would you wait another year to try and recoup your investment if we all know the prices go to shit so quick?

Because I'm referring to hatchling prices, and you can't breed hatchlings.

Because I'm referring to hatchling prices, and you can't breed hatchlings.

I had an 08 baby breeding at the end of 08...little male spider from BT.

It grew fast enough to breed, it wasn't a hatchling anymore. It was mature. When you BOUGHT it, it was not breedable if it was a hatchling.

I thought it was clear enough, but let me restate it more clearly.

#1 buys a HATCHLING in 2007 and pays $400.
#2 waits until 2008 and buys a HATCHLING for $125.
But #1 can breed their snake, becuase it is now a full year older, and thus has a small jump on #2, who must wait until their hatchling grows enough to breed. While #2 is feeding and growing his cheaper snake, #1 is breeding and selling babies from his snake.

Thus the higher price in theory, gains you a time jump, so you breed before other people. If you wait, you can pay a lower price, but you will not be "ahead" of other breeders in producing, and must be patient while seeing them breeding and hatching their eggs.

So it's always going to be a balancing act of who wants to wait until prices drop, and who wants the get the snake now, and be able to breed sooner rather than later. Some people haven't got the choice, because their funds won't allow them to buy the latest and greatest morph. Some people are not concerned with being the first to produce a certain morph or combo, and are content to wait until there are more of the snake, so the price isn't quite as high. Then you get into whether someone will buy the morph or buy hets(in recessives) and go the longer route to get the snake they want. Buy a bee? Or buy a spider and pastel and produce your own?

Prices are not a simple thing, it hinges on too many bits and bobs to say "This is why" or "This is how to". I'm very very glad to hear that vendors are selling more snakes. It's good news as long as the prices don't bottom out completely in order to sell the snakes.

you can't breed hatchlings.

My queenbee bred at 13weeks old...:cool:

Sounds like there's something wrong with it Larry. I'd be willing to keep an eye on it for ya this season. :D

It grew fast enough to breed, it wasn't a hatchling anymore. It was mature. When you BOUGHT it, it was not breedable if it was a hatchling.

If I bought it at 200 grams and had it breeding at 390 something grams and maybe 16-18 weeks old I am not willing to call that a mature animal, if you were to look at him now you would still call him a baby.

To really get a clear picture your person #1 would be breeding it the first year (because if it is willing you'll be able) and the Person #2 who waited that extra year when they were cheaper then sat on it for another year would be 2 seasons behind not just the one...:cheers:

Buys Pastel for $400...Breeds said Pastel...Keeps female Pastels and sells males while your waiting till next year to get one cheaper...

I think things will work out.Seeing some of the smaller breeders sell-out their stuff kind of sucks,but it is all part of the process.

It's kinda a joke how prices drop so fast. I got a pair of het pieds last year for $500 and now there half price. Just giving away money.

Yea but your pair is alot older and going to produce soon hopefully.

If it makes you feel any better, I paid $1500 for an '06 female orange ghost in '07. She should be dropping her first clutch in the next month or two. Now you can pick up pastel hypo's for less than what I paid. :p

You got a great head start anyways

We were @ the Hamburg show and saw a small mojo male for $150... We passed and bought a mojo female for a few hundred more... But we did run into a Airmen who was getting deployed and we purchased a 07 male spider 800gr and a 07 lemon pastel 1200gr for $450... In Jan. we bought a 07 pastel female for $500

Another thing I don't understand. Why do people that get "deals" at shows etc think they have to tell everyone about them? :dunno:

I live out in the middle of nowhere as far as breeders and shows go. Except for my first snake-which I bought at a herp shop-all my animals have come from breeders. I like a deal as much as the next guy, but I don't mind paying more for the service that a top notch breeder is going to give you. I know everyone wants the 10k snake for 5k-or less-but I'm in this hobby because of the pleasure that I get from seeing my animals every day and watching them grow. I might want to breed some day, but that's not why I'm here...:cheers:

Another thing I don't understand. Why do people that get "deals" at shows etc think they have to tell everyone about them? :dunno:


An interesting, good question. Perhaps ego?

Yea I've never understood that one myself. Bragging about paying under market value, only helps tank the very market you just bought into..

Yea I've never understood that one myself. Bragging about paying under market value, only helps tank the very market you just bought into..

I agree. and not onlly that they will be the first to cry when they raise them up until breeding size/age and get a clutch and cant sell it for no more than less of half what they gave. first to brag and first to cry because they cant sell them. then blame the economy and others that is doing the same thing they just done.

Larry, great point!!

I agree. and not onlly that they will be the first to cry when they raise them up until breeding size/age and get a clutch and cant sell it for no more than less of half what they gave. first to brag and first to cry because they cant sell them. then blame the economy and others that is doing the same thing they just done.

So true. So true