Hi,

On June 7 I got my mom's friend Jill to drive me, my friend, my sister, and her boyfriend out east of Houston to do some cruising. I was there once before, and the road was covered in DOR snakes, so we hoped to find some live snakes this night. There weren't as many as last month, but the diversity was pretty good.

First snake we see is a DOR Texas Rat Snake... a shame, because I wanted to find a live one.

Next we drive over a little bayou/canal and we see the most suspicious shape in the water

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/IMG_1088.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/IMG_1087.jpg

Next up is this Mississippi Green Water Snake (Nerodia cyclopion)

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/IMG_1097.jpg

Graham's Crayfish Snake (Regina grahami)

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/IMG_1101.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/IMG_1515.jpg

Gulf Salt Marsh Snake (Nerodia clarkii)

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/IMG_1102.jpg

There was a car coming on the road ahead of us, so we had to dim our big lights. All of a sudden I see a very distinct shape on the other lane, and I jump out of the car to find one my main targets!

Speckled Kingsnake (Lampropeltis getula holbrooki) or integrade? LIFER

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/SpeckledKingSnake2.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/IMG_1114.jpg

Took him in the car to get a better look at him

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/SpeckledKingSnake4.jpg

Can anyone help with the ID of this water snake? It has the less busy pattern of a rhombifer but the head shape of a cyclopion. Hybrid? More photos if necessary.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/IMG_1121.jpg

This was an unfortunate Western Ribbon Snake (Thamnophis p. proximus)

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/Ribbonsnake.jpg

We saw this Western Cottonmouth (Agkistrodon piscivorus leucostoma) coming on to the road. This guy was really pissed and I just wanted to get him off the road. Earlier in the evening cars killed a cottonmouth in front of me and I wasn't gonna let that happen again.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/IMG_1127.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/IMG_1128.jpg

This last find was VERY exciting! The most docile wild snake I've ever seen.

Prairie Kingsnake (Lampropeltis c. calligaster) LIFER

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/Jillsjunedownload079.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/IMG_1139.jpg

Lampropeltis = shiny shield

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/IMG_1145.jpg

Sunset

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/matthijs_94/IMG_1083.jpg

Thanks for looking,
Matt

Great little herping run Matt. Awesome pictures as always.

Unless it has been overturned, isn't road cruising in Texas illegal now? None the less, some great finds!

nice shots matt!

Road cruising is still illegal in TX Jenea...

Then it might not be wise to post it on an open forum....

Then it might not be wise to post it on an open forum....

But he is in Tejas not Texas :lmao:

Very nice finds!

I especially like that Speck. It looks like a big one!

Nice post Matt. Love the King snakes.:cheers:

Tat looks like a good trip. Nice herpin.:cheers:

Yes, the getula was big!

As for it being illegal... yes, but I'd be surprised to have the police track me down through a public forum.

Yes, the getula was big!

As for it being illegal... yes, but I'd be surprised to have the police track me down through a public forum.

Nice pics but again, it is illegal. And it wouldnt be the police tracking you down. It would be a Game Warden from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission. And yes they do frequent these forums looking for crap just like this....



A BILL TO BE ENTITLED AN ACT relating to hunting from public roads or rights-of-way.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS :
SECTION 1. Section 62.001, Parks and Wildlife Code, is
amended by adding Subdivision (3) to read as follows:

(3) "Public road or right-of-way" means a public
street, alley, road, right-of-way, or other public way, including a
berm, ditch, or shoulder.

SECTION 2. Subchapter A, Chapter 62, Parks and Wildlife
code, is amended by adding Section 62.0031 to read as follows:

Sec. 62.0031. HUNTING FROM PUBLIC ROAD OR RIGHT-OF-WAY
PROHIBITED. A person may not hunt a game animal, wild fowl, or bird
when the person is on a public road or right-of-way.

Of course I cruise the roads to find snakes, but I ALWAYS get them off the road. I'm 100% convinced I saved the lives of a few snakes that night, and I don't regret do any of it. To me it's worth getting fined if it saves the lives of some critters.

Hopefully the snakes hated getting picked up and photographed so they got far away from the road.

I understand what you are saying but it is still ILLEGAL, regardless of how many snakes you save. You do what you want young man, but you are setting yourself up for trouble....

I am not fluent on legalese so forgive me if I sound like an idiot asking this but wouldn't cruising for the purposes of photography only, as in this case here, not fall under the anti-cruising law because photographing is not hunting and the anti-cruising law is to prevent hunting per that above description??

Great shots there man, love the big ol king snakes! I wish I was in an area where we could just drive down the road and come across snakes like that!

I am not fluent on legalese so forgive me if I sound like an idiot asking this but wouldn't cruising for the purposes of photography only, as in this case here, not fall under the anti-cruising law because photographing is not hunting and the anti-cruising law is to prevent hunting per that above description??

That was my thought also but I'd think if a game warden showed up and you were stopped on the side of the road with a snake in your hands he wouldn't know whether you were trying to take it or just take it's picture and save it really.

Regardless, it is illegal, and it is a bit disrespectful to BT and Larry to promote illegal activities on their forum, regardless of if we agree with the law or not.

If they find the thread inappropriate, by all means have them PM me and explain I shouldn't post it. They can delete it, of course.

The definition of hunting in Texas is "killing or capturing an animal", which is VERY broad. Simply picking up the snake, capturing it temporarily, would fall under that definition.

A guy on the fieldherpforum is making a film about it, called Alterna Rush.

www.alternarushthemovie.com

Check it out!

And I'm not so sure if I'm setting myself up for trouble. I doubt they'd take the time to come to my house and if I explain the situation I'm sure they wouldn't mind. Plus, I bet most law enforcement officers aren't even aware of the law, let alone that photographing animals would also be illegal in the law.

You might be surprised since there was such a big stink over it when it passed.....

Well, I was talking to a herper on the fieldherpforum, and he's been stopped by a law enforcement officer in east TX who wasn't aware of the law OR didn't enforce it.

Well, let me put it another way...you are blatently doing something that you yourself admitted you know is illegal. You then justify it. Makes me question your ethics and if you are someone I would want to have dealings with. Regardless of how stupid the law may be, it is still ILLEGAL.

Many herpers also admitted to continue to breed mice to feed their existing collection of snakes if HR669 got passed.

I have more respect for those people than those that let their snakes die to do exactly what the law tells them to do.

Like I said, I go there with the intent to find snakes on the road. In the process of doing so, I save snakes' lives without a doubt. This to me is more important than some law. In a way, you could argue that also shows I have ethics regarding other animals. Sorry if I come across differently, though.

:cheers:

Many herpers also admitted to continue to breed mice to feed their existing collection of snakes if HR669 got passed.

I have more respect for those people than those that let their snakes die to do exactly what the law tells them to do.

Like I said, I go there with the intent to find snakes on the road. In the process of doing so, I save snakes' lives without a doubt. This to me is more important than some law. In a way, you could argue that also shows I have ethics regarding other animals. Sorry if I come across differently, though.

:cheers:
So using your theory here, if I lost my job and went out and robbed a bank, it would be ok since I was doing it to help my kids. Sorry son but your theory is not flying here. What you are doing is illegal no matter how you justify it. And just because some backwoods cop didnt know about the law doesnt mean game wardens (who by the way cruise the back roads CONSTANTLY in Texas. I know because I grew up there.) dont know about it. You do what you want and when you get busted, dont say you werent warned.

Many herpers also admitted to continue to breed mice to feed their existing collection of snakes if HR669 got passed.

I have more respect for those people than those that let their snakes die to do exactly what the law tells them to do.

Like I said, I go there with the intent to find snakes on the road. In the process of doing so, I save snakes' lives without a doubt. This to me is more important than some law. In a way, you could argue that also shows I have ethics regarding other animals. Sorry if I come across differently, though.

:cheers:

I don't agree with the law and I honestly do enjoy seeing your photos - but trying to convince us that it is ok and is actually "ethical" to ignore the law is a joke.

So you have no qualms about the fact that you are getting the people that are driving you to also break the law?

We don't need another herper breaking the law. It may seem insignificant but it hurts our position when we fight things like HR669. Think about it.

Sorry guys.

Next time I'll skip BLBC when posting my road cruising part.

Regards, Matt

Instead of "skipping the BLBC" when posting such trips why don't you skip breaking the law, or at the very least posting it on a public forum when you do. Our hobby doesn't need any negativity.

Instead of "skipping the BLBC" when posting such trips why don't you skip breaking the law, or at the very least posting it on a public forum when you do. Our hobby doesn't need any negativity.

Agreed, the hobby doesn't need people openly flaunting they break laws on public forums. I don't agree with the law either, but we have to show responsibility on public forums. Not promote an image we are bunch of law breakers who will make some excuse that we broke the law with a twisted view on ethics.... The shots are great, no doubts.... but it's important to show we are respectable citizens until this law is over turned. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there some effort at the moment to do just that?

Sorry guys.

Next time I'll skip BLBC when posting my road cruising part.

Regards, Matt

:rockon::rockon::rockon:

Sputnik, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Sorry guys.

Next time I'll skip BLBC when posting my road cruising part.

Regards, Matt

Not really going to make a difference if its this or another forum.
As previously stated fish and game are able to cruise these sites.Not to hard to get a IP adress and so on.

Some Kids never learn

Yes actually, check www.alternarushthemovie.com

I'm not the only herper cruising roads in TX, and no people on other forums have actually commented on what I'm doing.

Thus, that leads me to believe they have no problem with it.

Some kids never learn... I'm willing to bet there's more adult Texans cruising the roads than kids. :rolleyes:

Yes actually, check www.alternarushthemovie.com

I'm not the only herper cruising roads in TX, and no people on other forums have actually commented on what I'm doing.

Thus, that leads me to believe they have no problem with it.

Some kids never learn... I'm willing to bet there's more adult Texans cruising the roads than kids. :rolleyes:

Have you read any of the previous post here? I believe as it's been posted by a few already that fish and game are able to cruise these sites Those people on the other forums may not care about what is posted on their sites and how it reflects upon their fellow members but here we do :yessir::yessir: It looks bad on all of us here and on the other sites when a person openly breaks the law and goes about posting it. I think the law sucks but it is what it is and until it changes you should respect it. :yessir:

Have you read any of the previous post here? I believe as it's been posted by a few already that fish and game are able to cruise these sites Those people on the other forums may not care about what is posted on their sites and how it reflects upon their fellow members but here we do :yessir::yessir: It looks bad on all of us here and on the other sites when a person openly breaks the law and goes about posting it. I think the law sucks but it is what it is and until it changes you should respect it. :yessir:

:yessir:

Alright guys, I see your point. Sorry.

So using your theory here, if I lost my job and went out and robbed a bank, it would be ok since I was doing it to help my kids. Sorry son but your theory is not flying here. What you are doing is illegal no matter how you justify it. And just because some backwoods cop didnt know about the law doesnt mean game wardens (who by the way cruise the back roads CONSTANTLY in Texas. I know because I grew up there.) dont know about it. You do what you want and when you get busted, dont say you werent warned.

One more thing though, this situation is completely different. In the case of robbing a bank, you're STEALING OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY. In the road cruising situation, I'm not hurting anybody, apart from making a few snakes feel uncomfortable - which will hopefully keep them away from the road!

Alright guys, I see your point. Sorry.



One more thing though, this situation is completely different. In the case of robbing a bank, you're STEALING OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY. In the road cruising situation, I'm not hurting anybody, apart from making a few snakes feel uncomfortable - which will hopefully keep them away from the road!

Sorry junior, but you are wrong again. It does hurt everyone in the industry or anyone who keeps reptiles. Do you think if you were arrested for this that the newspapers would be nice? Hell no! They would make you out to be a hardened criminal who was out taking the local wildlife to sell. Look at the big picture here. Every time we turn around there is another law trying to take our rights away to keep the animals we love. So why would you do something to bring more light on the subject? Do you understand what I am saying here?????

Sorry junior, but you are wrong again. It does hurt everyone in the industry or anyone who keeps reptiles. Do you think if you were arrested for this that the newspapers would be nice? Hell no! They would make you out to be a hardened criminal who was out taking the local wildlife to sell. Look at the big picture here. Every time we turn around there is another law trying to take our rights away to keep the animals we love. So why would you do something to bring more light on the subject? Do you understand what I am saying here?????

Jr... is that nickname BT started or something that's used to refer to me now?

Lookit, this law is not specifically based on herps, and (so far :rolleyes:) I haven't been arrested.

- By the way, this is about the robbing situation, I'm not trying to talk myself out of the law -

Even if you don't get arrested for robbing a bank, you STILL have taken other people's money.

See how Jr. isn't wrong?

Matt, you can justify it all you want but these types of things hurt YOUR hobby. Just because people on another site haven't said anything doesn't make it okay. When I was your age there were almost no laws regarding keeping reptiles. Negative attention (in part) has drastically changed our hobby. Where will it be when you are in your 40s?

And just because other people are doing it doesn't make it okay. Laws are broken everyday, how does this make it acceptable? Does your moms friend who was driving know she was possibly breaking the law?

Jr... is that nickname BT started or something that's used to refer to me now?

Lookit, this law is not specifically based on herps, and (so far :rolleyes:) I haven't been arrested.

- By the way, this is about the robbing situation, I'm not trying to talk myself out of the law -

Even if you don't get arrested for robbing a bank, you STILL have taken other people's money.

See how Jr. isn't wrong?

No Junior, you are still wrong. You are going by the adage that it isnt breaking the law unless you get caught. Sorry, that isnt how the real world works. You are breaking the law even if YOU DONT GET CAUGHT! Its no different than robbing a bank and not getting caught. And as far as it not being herp based, I didnt see any pics of you holding up any opossums or raccoons! So what do you think the media would hone in on? DING! DING! DING! REPTILES!
Tell you what, I wont post any pics of me robbing banks and you dont post any more pics of you breaking the law either. Deal?

A couple posts popped up while I was typing. You can keep coming back with answers of why it was okay when you broke the law. But I guess we all knew everything when we were 15.

The definition of hunting in Texas is "killing or capturing an animal", which is VERY broad. Simply picking up the snake, capturing it temporarily, would fall under that definition.

Thank you for the clarification.

That was my thought also but I'd think if a game warden showed up and you were stopped on the side of the road with a snake in your hands he wouldn't know whether you were trying to take it or just take it's picture and save it really.

You are likely quite correct.

BTW, I was not really looking for an out or an excuse by asking, it was more just a personal curiosity.

I'm not the only herper cruising roads in TX, and no people on other forums have actually commented on what I'm doing.


Would it suddenly make a difference if people on other forums started making the same comments? There are more than enough people on this forum that are members of other forums that it would be easy to raise this issue to the attention of those forums Admins...

]- By the way, this is about the robbing situation, I'm not trying to talk myself out of the law -[[/SIZE]QUOTE]

I'm 15, and I can READ.

[QUOTE=norsmis;186042]No Junior, you are still wrong. You are going by the adage that it isnt breaking the law unless you get caught. Sorry, that isnt how the real world works. You are breaking the law even if YOU DONT GET CAUGHT! Its no different than robbing a bank and not getting caught. And as far as it not being herp based, I didnt see any pics of you holding up any opossums or raccoons! So what do you think the media would hone in on? DING! DING! DING! REPTILES!
Tell you what, I wont post any pics of me robbing banks and you dont post any more pics of you breaking the law either. Deal?

God, I KNOW I'M BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm just saying, it's NOT THE SAME AS ROBBING A BANK because I'm not hurting anybody... I already said I won't post road cruising photos anymore.

And I said the law about not being specifically herp based to make the point that the media can't make herpers look like law breakers anyway.

A couple posts popped up while I was typing. You can keep coming back with answers of why it was okay when you broke the law. But I guess we all knew everything when we were 15.

You gotta be :nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono: kidding me man.

I'm 15, yet I comprehend forums posts.

However old you may be, you clearly don't comprehend anything.

I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY IT'S OK I BROKE THE LAW! Get your head outta your ass and actually read the forum.

Later.

Dude, I was originally trying to be helpful since this your hobby as well. You have answers for everyone. I guess you're right and everyone else is wrong. Which is what I probably thought at 15 as well. Don't be so hostile.

Believe me, I comprehend quite a bit. I read the posts and was trying to help. You can tell me to get my head out of my ass which is a pretty strong statement. Have some common courtesy. I'm 42 and I've seen the damage that can be done to our hobby over the years.

I like seeing younger folks on these forums, learning, etc. You should spend some time learning rather then arguing.

I'm done with you, what a tool

Not really going to make a difference if its this or another forum.
As previously stated fish and game are able to cruise these sites.Not to hard to get a IP adress and so on.

Law enforcement cruise the net, it has become an extremely useful tool for gathering information. Because people put it out there for all to see.... hence the reason I stated we have to be responsible.



Alright guys, I see your point. Sorry.



One more thing though, this situation is completely different. In the case of robbing a bank, you're STEALING OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY. In the road cruising situation, I'm not hurting anybody, apart from making a few snakes feel uncomfortable - which will hopefully keep them away from the road!

In both cases your breaking the law.... in both cases you can be prosecuted. Your not keeping the snakes off the road.... they'll be on it regardless, the same ones you release can turn around and head straight back across it as you drive off.... it's not a no go zone to them, they are not capable of comprehending such.

[quote=DutchHerp;186037]- By the way, this is about the robbing situation, I'm not trying to talk myself out of the law -[QUOTE]

I'm 15, and I can READ.



God, I KNOW I'M BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm just saying, it's NOT THE SAME AS ROBBING A BANK because I'm not hurting anybody... I already said I won't post road cruising photos anymore.

And I said the law about not being specifically herp based to make the point that the media can't make herpers look like law breakers anyway.



You gotta be :nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono: kidding me man.

I'm 15, yet I comprehend forums posts.

However old you may be, you clearly don't comprehend anything.

I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY IT'S OK I BROKE THE LAW! Get your head outta your ass and actually read the forum.

Later.

See, now your coming across as ignorant, people are not thinking about you or themselves, they are thinking about the hobby and what's best for it. Problem is you have been saying it's okay to break the law because you go out and do just that. Your/our actions speak louder then words. Your not comprehending that.... no one is out to get you, but when you state, "Yeah, I know I'm breaking the law." That reads as I think it's okay to do so.... I do it, and I'll keep doing it. Until you run into the wrong person that pulls your car over....

The point people here are making is that this hobby is the most persecuted hobby around and the media have been doing a fine job of making "us all" look bad for years and still are.... they don't need more fuel to light another fire.

Think of yourself as an ambassador for the hobby.... do what is right by it. :cheers:

I already made a private apology to David Green but now I'll publicly apologize to anyone in this thread I've offended.

they are not capable of comprehending such.

Any evidence? :devil: :p

Although this is a discussion for another time...

:cheers:

Yes, when you find a live one sunning right beside a squished one! They see it as a great heat resource for thermoregulation.

I already made a private apology to David Green but now I'll publicly apologize to anyone in this thread I've offended.



Any evidence? :devil: :p

Although this is a discussion for another time...

:cheers:

Not really a discussion - you either understand it or you don't.

As for the apology, kudos to you.... good move. :cheers:

Yes, when you find a live one sunning right beside a squished one! They see it as a great heat resource for thermoregulation.

Exactly, roads are usually nice and warm at night or during day in the summer on dirt road is a nice place to be to catch some sun.... either way, they are just a passage way for us to drive along. Snakes do not possess the thought process to understand what a road is and the danger associated with it..... or they wouldn't be on it in the first place. It just happens to be in their path.

Matt and I had a private conversation and I was impressed that he reached out to me and apologized. I don't know if I would have been man enough at 15 to do the same. I think what it came down to was that he was feeling attacked and snapped back.

He is obviously passionate about the hobby and I noticed in another thread he has an interest in politics. I suggested he get involved and try and have the law modified...

That is good to hear, and thanks for posting that David.

Matt and I had a private conversation and I was impressed that he reached out to me and apologized. I don't know if I would have been man enough at 15 to do the same. I think what it came down to was that he was feeling attacked and snapped back.

He is obviously passionate about the hobby and I noticed in another thread he has an interest in politics. I suggested he get involved and try and have the law modified...

Matt is a good guy.... there are adults that don't man up as well as he did. :yessir:

Matt is a good guy.... there are adults that don't man up as well as he did. :yessir:

I agree and glad to hear this :yessir:

]- By the way, this is about the robbing situation, I'm not trying to talk myself out of the law -[[/SIZE]QUOTE]

I'm 15, and I can READ.



God, I KNOW I'M BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm just saying, it's NOT THE SAME AS ROBBING A BANK because I'm not hurting anybody... I already said I won't post road cruising photos anymore.

And I said the law about not being specifically herp based to make the point that the media can't make herpers look like law breakers anyway.



You gotta be :nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono: kidding me man.

I'm 15, yet I comprehend forums posts.

However old you may be, you clearly don't comprehend anything.

I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY IT'S OK I BROKE THE LAW! Get your head outta your ass and actually read the forum.

Later.

Warning issued for inappropriate language. PG-13 please.

Thanks guys... hoepfully you'll get to know me better after I post some more...

:cheers:

I'm not the only herper cruising roads in TX, and no people on other forums have actually commented on what I'm doing.



Here is a wake up call for ya.... .and you might want to heed it.

Where I work... its full of folks with that same mentality. Im not the only crack dealer on the corner... guess what... well they are all in here... because they broke the law.

Just because your not the only one doesnt make it right.

Law enforcement cruise the net, it has become an extremely useful tool for gathering information. Because people put it out there for all to see.... hence the reason I stated we have to be responsible.



Yes they do. I think it was last year I saw this story on MSN.... someone got popped for drunk driving or drunk in public or something like that... and went to court. According to the article they had a good chance of getting a break.

The night after court and before sentencing they went to a costume party.... and they dressed up in a black and white stripe jail uniform and was posing for the camera (drink in hand) all happy and such. They then posted those images on their myspace page.

Guess what.... the prosecutor got ahold of those images and gave them to the judge. And the judge threw the book at them. Gave them the maximum sentence allowed by law.

All because they were STUIPD!!!!

Something to think about

Law enforcement cruise the net, it has become an extremely useful tool for gathering information. Because people put it out there for all to see.... hence the reason I stated we have to be responsible.


Quick story -

I frequent a Texas duck hunting forum, this guy hit an owl on the way to the lake one morning and it got stuck in the grill of his truck. After the hunt they took a pic of their ducks with the owl next to them and posted it on the forum. Game wardens found them and they got a nice, hefty fine. Granted this was a federal offense, but they do cruise the forums. :cheers:

thanks for sharing very nice

Lots of great finds! I wish i was into herps when i lived in West Tejas!! only things i ever came across were Horned toads!